Live From Worlds – Women’s Subdivision 12

The last one!

There is suspense around the US performance in terms of which finals who will make, whether McCallum will upset Lee to make the AA final, and who makes which EF. Brazil is in for a fight against Spain to see which country grabs the last Olympic spot, Brazil needing to beat 159.021 to get in.

Chuso watch is as follows. Chuso currently sits 29th. We anticipate 30 spots available (not confirmed yet, can change if something weird happens in sub 12) and Chuso is trying to fend off New Zealand, Finland and Singapore. If just one of them passes her, she’s in. If two of them pass her, she’s technically in the alternate position but should get in once Japan’s reserved host spot is reallocated. And if all three pass her, she’s out.

TEAMS: USA, Brazil
INDIVIDUALS: Maija Leinonen (FIN), Nitta Nieminen (FIN), Rosana Ojala (FIN), Courtney McGregor (NZL), Isabella Brett (NZL), Maia Fishwick (NZL), Tan Sze En (SGP)

US introductions. It is v loud in here. Spencer no like.

Rotation 1

Nieminen – BB – switch mount, hit – switch to split, a little short – back tuck, check

McCallum – FX – double double is hit but chest pretty well forward – front lay to front 2/1, no connection out and a lunge forward – switch 1/2 – wolf triple was a little wobbly, which is uncharacteristic for her – full-in, very secure landing – split leap full, comfortable – double tuck, bounce back.

Fidelis bounce back on full

14.133 for Jade’s DTY

Good DTY for Flavia – minor bounce back and just a touch of chest position –

McGregor adds a piked jaeger to her NCAA set, catches close and struggles to cast out of it – finishes double tuck with a step forward –

Leinonen falls on a side aerial

Leticia Costa finishes for Brazil with a full on vault

They’re taking forever on McCallum’s score – up 13.766 and fifth on the event, feels a little high.

Lee – FX – double double, solid, small slide back, also a little forward but less than McCallum – DLO, pikes down just at the end, little slide – wolf triple and wolf double are very smooth – 15 to front full, little bounce – swtich ring split leap full, clearly around – double tuck, slide back. Good.

Great save on a loso series from Ojala on beam, but then she immediately falls on a side somi

Fall on bars from Fishwick. Good stuck double front, though.

14.200 for Sunisa. Highest floor of anybody so far. Like I said, scores feeling high here.

Carey – FX – Moors – bounce back and OOB – she’s going to have to be efficient now to stay ahead of Sunisa – double L turn – DLO 1/1, bounce back – switch full, around, short of split – double double, another step back and OOB, similar to camp with these OOBs – split leap 1.5 attempt, possible full credit – front tuck through to double tuck, bounce back.

Interesting. Lee really should be higher, but we’ll see if difficulty carries her past those two OOB bounces.

Comparing vault, Brazil leads Spain by nearly 1.3

14.200 for Carey – but she loses out to Lee on the E score tiebreak.

Biles – FX – triple double, bounce back and OOB – Biles, no connectio out of it, bounce forward – wolf 2.25, solid – front full through to full in, bounce back – switch to split leap 1.5, looked like she just pulled around that 1.5 at the last second – doubel double, her best pass, only small movement.

So it will be Biles and Lee to the floor final. The question left is whether the last spot goes to Moors or Saraiva.

14.833 for Simone.

43.233 for the US is the highest floor score by 2.5 points.

On to rotation 2, shall we?

Rotation 2

Leinonen – FX – double back, two hops back

McGregor – BB – hits punch front mount – front tuck to split to wolf, nice – bhs lay-pike, leg-up check – side aerial, small lean – y spin, small check – switch 1/2, not up to 180 but secure – solid 1.5 fismount, slide back. Some leans but stayed on

Lee – VT – hits her DTY – pretty good one for her 14.566

McCallum – VT – DTY, a little less control than her usual, but because she’s usually close to sticking, medium bounce back

11.466 for McGregor

Ojala trips a little on her double spin combination but stays up right –

Identical 14.566 for McCallum.

Thais catches a piked jaeger, a little low – tkatchev was high – 1/2 turn on high, short of vertical giant full, late – double pike, hop back

Carey – VT 1 – Cheng – solid Cheng, more laid out than we see from her sometimes, not totally laid out of course, slide back. 15.300

12.733 for Thais

Carey – VT 2 – hits her Amanar, big height and distance, lunge forward and crossed knees throughout. She missed the floor final, but she’ll make the vault final.

Tan has a break on a side somi with a check and a larger arm wave on a side jump – 2/1, crossed legs but only a bounce up in place.

Nitta Nieminen feeling toxic, bounce back on double pike and falls

Biles – VT 1 – Cheng, easy, super distance but a very large bounce back

Flavia – UB – hits her pak – arch on low bar but saves it – shap to tkatchev, very low – toe full – 1/2 – double front, step back. Flavia bars, but she stayed on.

Just 15.066 for Biles on the Cheng, a low number for her.

Biles – VT 2 – Amanar is brilliant in the air of course, but another lunge forward. You know she’s going to be pissed about today.

15.333, average 15.199. Jade qualifies in first, Simone in 2nd.

Oliveira – UB – hits her shap 1/2 – close catch on piked jaeger – double front, has to cowboy, but sticks it

US with the top team vault score over France by a point.

13.633 for Oliveira

Brazil drops 2.5 points compared to Spain on bars and now trails in the comparison.

Rotation 3

Chuso will be very happy about all the 11s were seeing for all the individuals in this session.

Fidelis – BB – bhs loso loso, secure, knees – switch to switch 1/2, good, small arm wave – aerial to split to back handspring, smoothly connected – side aerial with a leg-up check but good correction to cover – solid punch front – split to wolf – double pike, a bit short with a hop forward

Eaker – UB – Church to Pak, small arch on low bar – Van leeuwen – clear hip – clear hip 1/1 – toe 1/2 to piked jaeger, nice – a little late on final cast hs – DLO, small hop. Good one.

14.000 for Eaker, good score for her.

12.833 for Fidelis on beam.

Are they holding the US routines for broadcast, because this is the only rotation over two days where they haven’t competed immediately.

Saraiva – BB – glorious layout series – bhs loso loso, right on, perfect – switch ring, sublime – aerial, small hesitation check – split ring jump, solid – side somi, lean – split ring leap, good – double pike, step back. A good one, waiting for a big number. No one switch rings like her on beam, and hopefully it is rewarded.

While that was happening, McCallum hit one of her good ones on bars, stuck landing. 14.641.

McGregor lands a bit short on her full in – 1.5 to front full, a large bounce OOB but pleased to see her hit that because she was struggling landing it in warmups –

13.400 for Flavia and 9th place is too low.

Biles – UB – weiler 1/2 to Maloney, some legs – to tkatchev well caught – toe full to piked tkatchev to pak – van leeuwen, another little leg break – double double, small hop. Good.

14.733 on bars. Important that our dude just yells Elisabeth Seitz periodically.

The E scores on bars are ridic, and by ridic I mean they’re all identical for wildly non-identical routines.

Lee – UB – nabiebva to pak to Maloney to bhardwaj – Van Leeuwen – great – gaint 1.5 to piked jaeger, nice – late cast 1/2 – FTDT, small hop in place. Excellent.

15.000 for Sunisa and third place.

Flavis’s beam score has been changed to 13.700, and now she’s in 4th. THAT’S RIGHT.

Rotation 4

McCallum hits her wolf turns very comfortably as always – split jump 1/2 from side position – side aerial to loso loso and falls, she got progressively off line through the series – aerial, solid – sissone to full turn – double pike, a little short, step forward.

Fidelis – FX – 1.5 through to double arabian, short and falls – full-in, also a bit short – double tuck is fine, bounce back – doubel pike, deep, bounce back

12.933 for McCallum. I love that it’s still 22nd place.

Lee – BB – just does pull around her wolf triple, got a little scary there for a moment – split to sissone, pretty – aerial – bhs bhs layout and falls – grabs the beam – US counting a fall on beam now – leap combination lovely – side aerial loso loso is pretty – switch ring, broken connection – split ring jump – double tuck, hop back

11.833 for Thais

None of the individual athletes here passed Chuso, so she’s going to be safe.

Saraiva – FX – DLO, a little short, step forward – switch full, great height – full in, nearly stuck, chest down – split leap 1.5, also excellent – 1.5 to front 1/2, slightly jarred landing – memmel turn for credit – switch ring, perfect – double pike, short kind of runs out of it because Flavia.

13.400 for Sunisa on beam, still in 10th with a fall. Like that’s the same score Flavia got originally. WHERE AM I?

Eaker – BB – switch mount, no connection into split ring – Y spin, overturns with an arm wave check – aerial to split ring jump to bhs – side aerial to loso loso is perfection – split leap to side somi, smoothly done – switch ring – baby crying – switch side, good – bhs bhs 2.5, small hop. So if Sunisa was 13.400 with a fall, Eaker has to be near 15, right? I mean not really, but…

13.833, Flavia knocks Brooklyn Moors out of the floor final, which wouldn’t have happened if she hadn’t inquired.

Costa – FX – Dos Santos, pretty good, small hop forward – full in, small hop – split leap is quite short of 180 – double pike, bounce back – popa also short of split – double tuck, boucne

Are they not using Jade? Because if not, Brazil is not going to pass Spainwith that routine.

Eaker 13.866. OK?

Biles – BB – hits wolf – aerital to split to straddle – bhs loso loso, perfect – switch to 1/2 to back tuck, good – this is right on – split jump 1/2 from side, nailed – bhs bhs double double, small hop back. That was phenomenal.

So, the US is in first by 3.6. And SPAINNNNN is into the Olympics in the 12th position over Brazil.

That means Flavia gets a spot for the AA (she also advances to two event finals)

Inquiry for Eaker.

OK let’s start working through things.

AA Qualifiers:
1. Biles
2. Lee
3. MDJDS
4. Melnikova
5. Liu TT
6. Li SJ
7. Derwael
8. Black
9. Seitz
10. Saraiva
11. Akhaimova
12. Villa
13. Voss
14. Kinsella
15. Teramoto
16. Friess
17. Steingruber
18. Iorio
19. Godwin
20. Hatakeda
21. Visser
22. Moors
23. Varinska
24. Rodriguez

Team Final qualifiers:
1. USA
2. China
3. Russia
4. France
5. Canada
6. Netherlands
7. Great Britain
8. Italy

Event Final qualifiers:
Vault – Carey, Biles, Moreno, Downie, Yeo, Olsen, Akhaimova, Qi
Bars – Derwael, Spiridonova, Lee, Seitz, Downie, Liu, Biles, Melnikova
Beam – Biles, Li, Liu, Saraiva, MDJDS, Voss, Black, Padurariu
Floor – Biles, Lee, Melnikova, MDJDS, Akhaimova, Saraiva, Popa, Derwael

So, everyone in the event finals is qualified either as part of a team or through the all-around except for Yeo Seojeong, so there are 11 spots available in addition to the original 20 from the AA, so the AA qualifiers go down to 31 spots.

  1. Saraiva
  2. Steingruber
  3. Godwin
  4. Varinska
  5. Lee YS
  6. Kovacs
  7. Dominici
  8. Moreno
  9. Francis
  10. Kim Su Jong
  11. Holasova
  12. Vidiaux
  13. Holbura
  14. Haemmerle
  15. Alistratava
  16. Abdul Hadi
  17. Mohamed
  18. Savranbasi
  19. Mokosova
  20. Martins
  21. Derek
  22. Rooskrantz
  23. Adlerteg
  24. Janik
  25. Castro
  26. Raz
  27. Erichsen
  28. Orrego
  29. Chusovitina
  30. Ting HT
  31. Nekrasova

First alternate is Tan Sze En, who will get in when Japan’s host place is reallocated, then the alternate will be Megan Ryan.

Event final qualifiers:

Yeo Seojeong. There’s one.

Team qualfiers:

  1. USA
  2. Russia
  3. China
  4. France
  5. Canada
  6. Netherlands
  7. Great Britain
  8. Italy
  9. Germany
  10. Belgium
  11. Japan
  12. Spain

Eaker’s D score was lowered by 4 tenths after her inquiry, and she is out of the beam final.

DON’T INQUIRE JUST TO INQUIRE. SHE WAS ALREADY IN FINALS. THERE WAS NO REASON FOR THAT.

192 thoughts on “Live From Worlds – Women’s Subdivision 12”

  1. Italy got into the team final by the SKIN OF THEIR TEETH. Literally less than a tenth separated them from Germany. They’d better kill it in TF.

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  2. Do we know who makes the decision to submit an inquiry? In Kara’s case, would it be Laurent as head coach for the team or Al/Armine as her personal coaches?

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  3. Whoever submitted Eaker’s petition should be shot. The placements were displayed in real time and Eaker was the very last beam routine of the entire competition.

    I don’t know if the inquirer was not aware that Eaker was qualified or if they were upset at the low score and wanted “justice.”

    Either way, that was one of the worst “non-gymnastics” mistakes I’ve ever seen.

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      1. but still doesn’t excuse the unfortunate strategic mistake. eaker was definitely top 7 score on beam before biles went. still feel sad for her…

        I think everyone should learn now that the FIG has enforced the inquiry process to go either way. Before it was just rejected. i guess there might have beena possibllity of decreasing d score but they never done it…. and now they are bringing it on fulltime. we’ve seen thiis happened numerous time at this worlds…. i guess judges are tired of too many inquiries..

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    1. Yes, I’m heartbroken for Kara. That is devastating – to work so hard for the final and miss out because your coach… was arrogant?

      It should have been made clear to the gymnasts ahead of time that inquiries can now result in lower scores.

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  4. Had the vault been the actual finals, and they used proper rounding of Simone’s E scores instead of truncating, Simone and Jade would have been tied. I think when they apply the tie-breaker of looking at E scores, Simone would have a 9.366 on the Cheng (with the three tenth OOB deduction considered an execution technical), and thus Simone would win the tie-breaker? When are they ever going to fix this truncating scores thing? Punishing gymnasts for having been given scores that add up to the same thing but do not divide evenly is ridiculous, and is not a tie-breaker. It is not the gymnast’s fault that the judges did not all give the same score…. Of course I fully expect Simone will have more controlled landings in the finals, but I still feel this point needs to be made.

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  5. Eaker has gotten huge scores in multiple FIG competitions, as recently as Pan Ams. If all of those judges decided to credit her ring leaps (and assuming that’s what they took down today), then it’s not fair to suddenly crack down on them. Isn’t there like a public newsletter or something of judging updates/recommendations, or am I thinking NCAA? That would at least give her a warning of potential issues.

    Conspiracy theory time…it was payback for the public outrage over the Biles dismount difficult rating!

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    1. I know you’re probably joking, but the conspiracy theories feel like such poor sportsmanship to me. The US gets generous scoring and the benefit of the doubt so, so often. American gymnasts win tons and tons of medals. Simone’s claim that her element was undervalued because she was American was offensive and completely wrong (it certainly was undervalued, but it’s no more a targeting of the US than the cap on pirouette elements was targeting the Chinese, or the cap on transitions targeting Russians).

      It was obvious that Kara’s ring elements were questionable – people have been pointing it out for two years now. It sucks to have such an unpleasant surprise at Worlds, but at the end of the day it’s Kara’s fault for showing up with a subpar routine. You can’t blame this on judges being lenient earlier in the season, like oh I thought it was ok to do a bad job because no one called me out on it before. There’s a freaking explanation and diagram of how to do a ring position in the COP. That is the “warning of potential issues.”

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    2. The thing you’re likely thinking of from NCAA was an email that was sent out to judges informing them that scoring had been inconsistent between athletes and teams. The email asked them to make changes to make the scores more consistent. Though the contents of the email did end up becoming public knowledge, the intended audience of the email was never the athletes and coaches. The point of the email wasn’t to warn athletes and coaches that judging was going to change; the point was to communicate to the judges that they needed to make a change.

      The more relevant NCAA comparison is the way most of the top teams get overly generous scoring that ignores form errors in nearly every meet, but then there’s a meet or two for each team where judges actually take deductions for poor form, and everyone acts like it’s news to them that the code contains deductions for anything other than landing errors, missed handstands, and balance checks.

      The bottom line is that officials in a sport don’t owe it to the athletes to provide advanced notice that they’re going to enforce the rules of the sport. It should be a foregone conclusion that you will be subjected to the rules of the sport. Of course judging will vary from meet to meet with some meets being more lenient than others. A routine that completely relies upon lenient judging is an incredibly risky routine. If you’re going to construct a routine like that, you accept the risk.

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  6. Kara not on BB final due to inquiry downgrade without a major error + Jade Carey getting 2 per country outed of FX final.

    I cant handle the insanity on the scoring especially on BB and UB. Seriously this is the most inconsistent scoring I have seen in a very long time

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    1. THANK YOU

      I’m more upset about Kara TBH – Jade was always going to have to have a good hit to beat Suni – but still with you.

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      1. I’m so thrilled about Kara finally being judged accurately. It is devastating for her personally, and I’m really, really sorry for her – especially since her coaches screwed this up extra with that arrogant inquiry. She is a fabulous gymnast on beam and deserved better coaching and a smarter routine composition.

        But it was ALSO unfair to her competitors that she was getting a 6.8 D-score when she wasn’t actually doing the elements required. After these judges nailed Chen Yile (also correctly) for her sketchy ring elements, I would’ve been furious if they’d let Kara slide.

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      2. I agree, it’s better to get called out in a big meet now than wait for the surprise at Tokyo. Shame on Kara’s coaches and USAG.

        People have been talking about her leaps for awhile and her mount is unnecessarily risky, they should change it while they still have time.

        Jade probably isn’t surprised and she’s been improving on FX. I think she’s been growing at a pace that might put her in AA contention too in Tokyo since she can compete all events off the team. I’m rooting for her.

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  7. Great overall showing from the US women. As an American, I am so proud to be represented by these incredible athletes. They work so hard and achieve at such a high level. Sunisa is an incredible talent. Jade’s power, especially on vault, is breathtaking. Kara is world class on beam, Grace is such a skilled AAer, and Simone is… the GOAT.

    I still think this team would have been better served by bringing a backup UB/BB gymnast over MyKayla, and in the absence of Riley the best option there was Morgan Hurd. I was never really worried about bars, just exasperated that the US might have to count a score in the 13s unnecessarily, but I WAS slightly concerned about BB. It has been the place where Suni looks the least comfortable and while Grace usually hits I have always found her to be a bit overscored there in the US. Bars went well today, but beam didn’t, and with a more balanced team we might have had two BB event finalists rather than just one.

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  8. Gutted for Kara particularly because of the exact way that she ended up not making beam finals, but what happened today is exactly what I’ve been saying ever since she’s been a senior. I’ve always felt like USAG and Kara’s coaches really don’t appreciate just how much of her beam scoring potential relies upon the judges conveniently ignoring the code. Yes, judges often do ignore the code, so it will work out sometimes. But sometimes the judges will actually judge according to what is written in the code, and in that case most athletes’ “ring jumps” aren’t going to get credit. Having a routine that loses more than a full point in D score if rings aren’t credited even if all other intended connections and skills are hit is majorly playing with fire. It’s risky even for those very few athletes who hit an actual ring position in the majority of their attempts, but Kara is not one of those athletes. I hope the US will learn something from this experience and make changes to routine composition before 2020.

    To be clear, I’m not knocking Kara at all. She’s a lovely athlete who gave great attempts at both of her routines today. The fault here lies with Kara’s coaches and USAG for being too cavalier about how risky it is to rely on overwhelmingly lenient judging.

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    1. Totally agree. Absolutely sucks for Kara, but this decision was totally fair and her coaches are to blame not just for the ill-advised inquiry, but for doing such a poor job of designing that routine.

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    2. Agree. They probably think it’s worth the risk to potentially be more competitive with the likes of Biles, whose power means she doesn’t have to rely on riskier mixed connection series to score high or the Chinese, who can consistently hit actual rings and therefore will more often than not get most if not all of their intended difficulty. And I also don’t think they anticipated inquiries going the other way around (they clearly did not hear about what happened to Brooklyn the day before) although why they would spend money on inquiring a score that was already guaranteed to qualify, I don’t know. However this will hopefully be a wake up call to come up with a better construction. The GAGE gymnasts in general are so lovely but they so rarely get to reach their potential because Al and Armine do such a bad job of constructing their routines.

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      1. I agree with most of what you’ve said, but I slightly disagree about the part about her coaches thinking it’s worth the risk to compete with Simone and some of the Chinese gymnasts. I don’t think they really understood how much of a risk it was. If they had appropriately evaluated the risk, they wouldn’t have filed an inquiry because they would’ve known that the reason her D score was lower today than it often is was because she actually got hit on the rings this time, and the judges aren’t going to magically decide that they don’t care about proper ring positions anymore after an inquiry.

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      2. I get what you mean but I also think that it depends on what the inquiry was about; there was one connection in particular, the switch ring to Korbut, that looked slow to me, but borderline enough that you could still debate for it being credited; if they realized that it was not credited and submitted an inquiry with that particular combination in mind, then it would show that they were aware of the scoring risks posed by the ring positions, but still figured they could milk a tenth or two out of a separate combination. If that is not what they were inquiring about, and instead were hoping to gain tenths through review of the routine at large, then you’re probably completely right, and it does show that they don’t quite have a grasp on how dangerous her routine construction is as well as being unaware that inquires can result in scoring down as well.

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      3. @Zyxcba If they realized that her switch ring was downgraded, then whether or not the leap+Korbut was considered to be connected becomes a moot point. When a switch ring is downgraded, it gets downgraded to a switch split leap which is a C. That would make the leap+Korbut combo a C+B mixed combo which gets no connection bonus.

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    3. I guess I’m a little confused. Can someone help me. I didn’t think it necessarily had to be the home delegation of the gymnast being inquired about. I had automatically starting rolling my eyes and assumed Canada made the inquiry to get their 2nd girl Padurariu bumped back up to 8th (plus being salty about Black’s overall scoring and Moor being bumped in FXF). If I’m wrong (probably am but I just seem recall on the Men’s side sometime during this cycle China made an inquiry against a Japanese and Ukrainian gymnast routine and both their gymnasts were bumped back up to a medal because of it and how uncomfortable it was to watch.) How do we know it was a Fong who inquired (and I actually thought the head of the US contingency, like Forester, had to tech make the actual inquiry and pay the fee?…and noticing his sensitive nature, that certainly would not shock me in the least.) Someone educate me so I don’t sound dumb 🙂

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      1. No other countries can’t submit an inquiry. The inquiry can only be done within the federation (as in a Russian coach can only submit an inquiry for a Russian gymnast for example) and theres a time limit on the inquiry. If you have an issue with the score you must submit the inquiry shortly after the score is put up— typically they’re submitted within a minute or two of the score being put up. It can’t be after the fact— for example in 2010 worlds the Russian head coach tried to submit an inquiry for Tatiana Nabieva at the end of Vault finals (she went early) and they rejected it because they waited too long. So no Canada can’t submit an inquiry for Eaker a day after they competed. The coaches themselves may submit an inquiry, but I believe the money comes out of the federation’s pocket so they may need the “ok” from the NTC or some other head if present. If you were allowed to make an inquiry for other countries V.Rod would’ve driven the Russian Gymnastics federation into bankruptcy.

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  9. Canadian Coach says to FIG inquiry judge: “Hello. Excuse me please, but we would like to file a FX score inquiry on behalf of our gymnast Brooklyn Moors.”

    FIG inquiry judge replies: “How DARE you even question our scoring! Since you have questioned our scoring, we will now LOWER Moor’s score AND we’ll make sure she doesn’t qualify for FX Finals! So there!”

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  10. Do coaches still need to bribe…err…give the inquiry judge some cash money when they file an inquiry? Maybe the inquiry judges in Stuttgart wanted even more money, didn’t receive it, so they lowered the scores? lol

    I thought I read no more cash for inquiries, but they probably now accept credit cards (after the coach fills in a generous tip) or maybe Venmo! 😉

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    1. Can we stop with the “bribing” thing? The fed gets the money back if the score isn’t changed, so the monetary incentive for FIG is from them to reject the inquiry. Not to mention that the big inquiry thing here has been them lowering scores, so…

      Liked by 1 person

  11. Well, China kinda produce this perfected beam routines like in series lol. Every year, a new senior with this crazy routines surfaces for chineses. This was the first time i’ve seen an american girl trying, and i remember the veeery first Eeker routine i’ve seen, my toughts were: ok gurl no. So it’s the real thing and i hope she improves.

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  12. This worlds has proven once and for all that there are no ring elements on beam that are worth it. There have been very few gymnasts in history who have come close to meeting the requirements of ring elements.

    I personally thing the requirements of ring elements are unrealistically harsh and I’d be fine with more lenient requirement in future codes because I don’t think the required positions are realistic.

    However, these elements must be scored as they are currently written in the code. Judges can’t decide to be lenient on certain elements just because they think they are too harshly scored.

    Regarding inquiries now being allowed to go in both directions, I do hope that this rule was made clear ahead of time. If the person responsible for submitting Kara’s requirement did know that, then the inquiry submission was an inexcusable mistake.

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    1. notwithstanding kara’s rings. we need to know if this inquiry thing is something new. I really really can’t remember any meet at all where an inquiry leads to a downgrade. not saying i’ve seen EVERY meet but i’ve seen several. it’s always been inquiry accepted or rejected, never seen downgrade before til now.

      I was actually a little concerned after hearing it about what happened to moors the night before because i’ve never heard of downgrade from inquiry before. then it happened again…. sigh…

      We need to know if this has always been the rule or if this is a new thing. It’s very important in strategy and planning…..

      As far as what happen going into TF now, this is definitely gonna throw a wrench into US team planning. Obviously they can’t completely change kara routine at this point. I think they will probably still use her at this point though.

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      1. Enquiries going up, down or unchanged isn’t a surprise to me. The Eaker enquiry corrected a D score mistake that probably would have been caught shortly after anyway.

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      2. Apparently this has happened in RG before? Which brings up another point: just how related are the FIG disciplines? This isn’t something I feel like we’ve ever really talked about, but it does seem like sometimes they are treated as completely different sports that don’t actually have the same procedure (even between MAG and WAG).

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  13. If anyone watched podium training, you will remember that after everyone had gone on beam, kara got back up there and did a combo with a ring leap and she stood on the beam while her coach talked to someone that had obviously been watching. I can’t help but believe someone DID say something about those leaps not meeting code, which makes this situation even worse. You know she hopped off that beam and the coaches were like, well we’ll just submit an inquiry if they don’t give you credit and get your score raised. This is 100% a coaching problem and it just sucks that the athlete has to be punished because of it.

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    1. I mean if that’s the case, at that point, what’s there really to do other than go for it and try to work it the best you can? They couldn’t very well recompose her entire routine.

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      1. I just think it feels like retaliation for being told this was an issue and then trying to appeal it after you were warned

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      2. If a cop pulls you over for speeding, and gives you a warning, and then you speed off and the cop pulls you over again and gives you a ticket this time, is that “retaliation” in your book?

        Liked by 1 person

    2. I’d be really surprised if that person in podium training was actually telling her that her ring jumps and leaps don’t meet the standard to receive credit. That would be an awkward and strange thing for anyone other than the coaches or national staff from the athlete’s own country to say.

      As for your comment about retaliation, that’s way off base. Nobody was taking out after Kara or Team USA. The beam judges merely decided to enforce the rules about receiving credit for ring elements. Kara was not the only athlete affected. Athletes from multiple countries took a hit on their D scores because they didn’t receive credit for rings. As I said in a prior comment, I’m very sad for Kara, but the people who screwed her over were her coaches (both because of the routine composition and the inquiry), not the judges.

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    1. Yes. I also think she’s eligible to qualify a nominative spot for Brazil through the Pan American Championships (someone please fact check— I know this is a rule, but I’m not sure if this applies for Brazil who already qualified Flavia through the AA) in which case she would need to finish top 2. Since the World Cup is more competitive and more difficult considering Carey and Paseka’s presence on the World Cup, the AA nominative spot is more likely if Brazil is eligible to obtain that.

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      1. Yes, Andrade is in the mix for both and would have been even if Brazil did qualify a team because she wasn’t part of that team. The big question with the World Cup circuit is if she can get healthy in time. She only has points from one event. But they are very good points. And let’s not forget that the beam spot is still wide open if you ask me. Nedov is leading but Andrade could get it from her. That might be her best option, especially since it’s an event she can get back quicker than vault.

        For Brazil overall, Andrade qualifying through World Cup would be the best result because then someone else (Fidelis or Barbosa) could qualify at Pan Ams.

        Like

      2. I think Andrade would be a smarter choice for the Pan Am spots. The thing is only the top two AA gymnasts (taking into account only one gymnast from each federation) can make it. USA is likely a shoo in for the top spot, especially when you consider that Lee did not help the US qualify to the olympics. If Canada sends Allaire-Bourgie Brazil would need to send a top All-Arounder to combat that, and Barbosa nor Fidelis could do that without giant mistakes from others. I can see Andrade trying for both, but Pan Ams would be easier, especially considering the fact that she would only have to prepare for the one instead of several. Best case scenario is that Andrade clinched a spot from the World Cup AND gets the nominative spot from Pan Ams; since the latter is nominative they could get a third person (likely Barbosa, but it could be anyone) to Tokyo.

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      3. Actually, the US is highly unlikely to get a Pan Ams spot because they will have already earned their two extra spots by the time Pan Ams comes around. Jade Carey is going to get a World Cup spot and then the US will get an AA World Cup spot. They will have earned their max two spots and won’t be able to earn one at Pan Ams.

        If Rebeca is healthy by World Cups, there is really no harm in sending her to compete and trying to earn a spot that way, say for beam. If she gets it, she gets it and they can try to get a third spot for someone else at Pan Ams. If she doesn’t, she can then try for herself at Pan Ams. Also, Brazil will likely send multiple athletes to try for Pan Ams…Rebeca, Thais, Jade, assuming they are all healthy.

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      4. Also, since the Pan Ams spot is nominative, if Rebeca gets the World Cup spot, she can’t go to Pan Ams for it…nominative means she would earn it for herself and since she would already have a spot, she wouldn’t be able to earn a second one for someone else. Thais or Jade would have to earn it for themselves.

        The only time someone can earn the spots for someone else at Pan Ams is for the non-nominative spots on already qualified team. So Canada can send Zoe Allaire-Bourgie, assuming she is healthy, and also probably Onyshko, Rose Woo, and maybe Laurie Denommee. But if they earn the extra spot it would be non-nominative.

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      5. A healthy Andrade is very capable of earning a world cup spot – but those events are early in the year, and I’m not sure she will be healed enough to participate in many competitions to win the series on an event. I do hope so, as she is one of the best in the world and deserves to make it to Tokyo.

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  14. I predict Brazil will qualify 3-4 athletes to Tokyo and they will score well enough that if they were a team they would make TF and possibly the podium, and we will all be super frustrated and so so ready to go back to an Olympic selection process with fewer holes in it.

    Seriously this process was trying to do so many awesome things but ended up so clumsy and inelegant in practice.

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    1. It’s impossible for Brazil to qualify more than three athletes to Tokyo at this point. The absolute max they can qualify are one through the event world cups, one through Pan Ams and Flavia who is already qualified. And I think it’s iffy to get one through event world cups as that’s would depend on a very rapid recovery for Andrade.

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      1. Also, I wish people posting about this actually knew the rules and would quit making stupid comments like “Brazil will qualify four athletes” and “the US will qualify someone at Pan Ams”

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      2. Good luck improving the quality of the comments here these days… it’s been taken over by a bunch of people who yell insults and don’t know anything about gymnastics.

        AnnieA is a longtime, usually thoughtful commenter so you might forgive her the mistake.

        Like

  15. To the idiot that tried to draw a comparison between a cop pulling you over twice to the kara, you’re even more dumb than the coaches

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    1. i don’t think it’s completely out of line comparison. If it really happened that they actually got a brevet judge to look at her rings during podium training because kara/her coach actually had concern, and that brevet judge gave their opinion, then they should already taken that as a warning. So then you either had to work on her rings and/or change things or do whatever (if you can do anything) to minimize risk (which would also include not submitting unnecessary inquiries if the inquiries could lead to downgrade).

      The main big issue i have is the inquiry process on how it can actually lead to a decrease score (which maybe matter a lot in placement sometimes). As i said before, i’ve never seen an inquiry actually leading to a downgrade before. Not saying i know everything about gymnastics inquiry or seen every meet. But i have seen many.. I’ve always seen either inquiry accepted and score go up or inquiry rejected and score stays the same. but not a downgrade before this meet.

      I think i might have compared this to taking the SAT and ACT test. I know full well about what happened to a wrong guesses impacting score on the ACT and SAT. ACT doesn’t penalize wrong answer, SAT does. So my strategy for guessing in each test are completely different.

      I still haven’t seen anyone (esp people like spencer, lauren) giving a clear cut answer regarding the inquiry. Much appreciated if there is an answer on this.

      We do really need to know more about the inquiry process (if this possible downgrade is a new thing or if this has always been written down (where?) and now they just decided to strongly enforce it at this meet but somehow never enforce it before)

      This is very important in strategy and planning! and everyone needs an answer!

      Like

    2. It’s actually a comparison to the person who used the word “retribution” and the possible situation that they thought might’ve happened, but if the only response you can manage in disagreement is “you’re dumb,” it’s not going to be worth trying to explain an analogy to you.

      Like

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