|Monday, January 20
|2:00pm ET/11:00am PT –  Iowa State @  Georgia||LINK||SEC+|
|2:30pm ET/11:30am PT – Arkansas @  Oklahoma||LINK||FSN|
|9:00pm ET/6:00pm PT –  Boise State @  Washington||LINK||FREE|
As I mentioned in…something?…somewhere?…I don’t get the Oklahoma home meets anymore, so I’m just focusing on Georgia/Iowa State today in the live blog. But I’ll be watching the scores for Oklahoma and going, “hmmm” at things in between rotations. You know, just like the bad old days.
Like Iowa State, Kevin is doing double duty meets this week.
Cashman – VT – UGA – hits a full, small bounce, a clear pike throughout. 9.825 quite high to start
Langkamp – UB – ISU – hits piked jaeger, good cast – piked shape in bail, ends up in vertical – some form casting up to a couple of these handstands – DLO, a hair short with a lunge forward. 9.775
Ward – VT – UGA – Tsuk full, one of her better landings – just a small step on landing, will also get deducted for pike. 9.850
Diaz – UB – ISU – half turn to jaeger, pretty solid – bail is cleanly vertical – probably .05s on all these casts – nice floaty DLO dismount with a controlled landing. 9.775
Magee – VT – UGA – does the full today, overdoes it with a huge bounce back – clean but didn’t have the landing control doing the full. 9.725
Palacios – UB – ISU – 1/2 turn to piked jaeger , hit – good cast – bail, solid hs, maybe a little foot break and rush in final cast hs – misses her release timing on the DLO, knees down. 9.050
Kevin notes that Orrego is off for the season for the Olympics
Vega – VT – UGA – mostly her usual full, good distance of course – a larger bounce back that she would have wanted, some body shape in the air. 9.800
Burns – UB – ISU – good first hs – Ray, solid turnover there, just a bit of feet – bail, a little hip angle there – good final hs, just does avoid a real arch there – DLO 1/1 dismount, little pike, small step. 9.850
Hawthorne – VT – UGA – beautiful full in the air, good height, hop back – best form of the lineup so far, good amplitude. 9.850
Vella-Wright – UB – ISU – short first hs – maloney to pak is glorious, great leg position – good hs – van leeuwen, very good form – FTDT, stuck landing. Great form in this routine. Two misses handstands, not a lot else. 9.875
Lukacs – VT – UGA – strong DTY, big height as usual – comes up a bit short on landing with a hop in place – not a lot of distance, good control on landing. 9.875
Ros Vaquer – UB – ISU – Maloney to pak as well, also good form – cast 1/2 on low, a little short – good final cast hs – DLO, very pretty, stuck landing. Impressive last few bars routines for ISU. 9.925 for her.
Rachel Baumann does exhibition for Georgia, a viable alternative full but not necessarily screaming for the lineup. Basuel does exhibition for Iowa State. Pretty jaeger, a little rushed in bail, really viable routine on the bars, took the FTDT reallllllly close to the bar but it was OK. A realistic rotation option.
After 2: Georgia 49.200, Iowa State 49.200
Those last couple bars routines for Iowa State were exceptionally good, putting the team into a tie with Georgia. Georgia fine on vault, scores were soft so they probably would have liked to take advantage of that a little bit more than 49.200, but some January landings meant they got 9.8s.
The Georgia bars moment of truth coming up now. New to see Sarah Persinger Sailors on commentary. She’s doing a good job. Also I really like the idea of the Sarah Persinger Sailors as a team mascot.
Meanwhile, Oklahoma not mixing things up in the lineup this week despite a two-meet weekend.
SUZANNE IS HAVING A GREAT TIME.
Converse – VT – ISU – yfull, small slide back, a little bit of piking but also shows a good open. Pretty. 9.800
Lukacs – UB – UGA – shortish first hs – tkatchev, very low but caught – hit cast – pak, some leg break – late on cast 1/2 on low – final cast as well – DLO, some piking, bounce back. Did she what she had to do. 9.750
Palacios – VT – ISU – hits her yfull, doesn’t have a lot of block there so height and distance deductions, some pike, small step back. 9.700
Cashman – UB – UGA – good first hs – tkatchev, a little higher than Lukacs but kind fo low – arched handstand but pulls it back- a bit of legs on bail but OK – DLO, controlled landing. 9.775
Turner – VT – ISU – better height on her full, but also a large bounce back – a bit of pike. 9.800
Hattaway – UB – UGA – she’s in for Vega in this lineup – muscled up first cast a little but good hs – giant full to gienger, legs on catch – bail, hit vertical, another leg break – DLO, bounce back. 9.775
Boychuk – VT – ISU – bounce back on full but smaller than Turner’s, again some pike, some legs, but a reasonable, comfortable hit
Roberts – UB – UGA – first cast hs good – toe on to maloney to bail, best leg position of the lineup to far – hits final cast – DLO, just some piking in the air, good stick. Best of the lineup so far. 9.925 you guys.
Steinmeyer – VT – ISU – Hits her Y1.5, medium hop forward, a bit of knees throughout, not large on the bounce. 9.850
De Jong – UB – UGA – Toe to Ray, close catch on Ray with some elbows, good bail – good final cast hs – DLO dismount, flung out a little holds the landing with a little hop it appeared? 9.875
Maxwell – VT – ISU – very strong Y1.5, more control on the landing than Steinmeyer, small step to the side, a bit of knees. Good. 9.950. Guys. Well, at least it’s not just for Georgia? I guess?
Oakley – UB – UGA – a bit short in first hs – lovely pike jaeger – good next cast – perfect pak – a bit short on cast 1/2 on low, but close – good final cast hs – FTDT was excellent, stuck. 9.925
After 2: Georgia 98.475, Iowa State 98.350
Georgia goes 49.275 on bars. Really important for them to get through with six hits. Still concerns that those first three routines won’t be evaluated as kindly in other meets — not inconceivable that you would have seen those go 9.650-9.700 in other contexts—but definitely a progress point. Iowa State does have some flatter fulls to start the lineup compared to Georgia, but those last two Y1.5s will keep ISU nationally competitive and ahead of the standard of many of its traditional peer teams.
“Jay Ronayne was pretty clear about, he loves bringing his team to Stegeman Coliseum.” Yes. See: that 9.950 on vault.
Magee – BB – UGA – lovely straddle jump 1/2 – bhs bhs loso series, lean correction – makes a bit of a meal of the full turn but no errors – 1.5 dismount, small hop forward. 9.850
Langkamp – FX – ISU – whip to double tuck, controls the landing well – split leap full to popa, short of position on the split – front lay to 1/2 to sissone – double tuck, another secure landing there. 9.850
Lukacs – BB – UGA – kickover front, solid – bhs loso, smallest arm wave adjustment, feet in the series – standing back tuck, lean – beat to straddle 1/4, short of position – double tuck, lunge back. 9.650
Diaz – FX – ISU – double tuck, smallest movememnt – switch side to popa, good extension, a bit out of control on the popa landing – front lay to front full, also a bit too much of a slide – double pike more control there. 9.825
De Jong – BB – UGA – good full turn – switch to split, lovely positions – aerial to a beat, nice and high – bhs loso, secure – split jump 1/2 from side, smooth – side aerial to full, stuck, just a bit deep. VERY nice routine. 9.875. Accurate, but kind of…surprisingly non out of control?
Diab – FX – ISU – front 2/1 to front pike, just a tad bouncy on landing – split leap full to popa, solid amplitude there – front lay to front full to stag, out of control on stag and kind of low – some knees on full – pretty rudi to loso final pass, that’s the highlight. 9.875
Floor scores also trending high. 2 career highs in three routines
Oakley – BB – UGA – gainer bhs bhs loso – nailed it – split to split ring jump, strong – side aerial, a bit of squeeze to avoid a check – gainer full, very high, too high?, bounces back on landing. 9.850
Converse – FX – ISU – double arabian, powerful, some cowboy and a lunge – 1/5 through to 2/1, landed pretty deep with a lunge forward – split leap full to popa, good positions, some travel – rudi, small foot adjustment. 9.700
Oklahoma scores – 49.525 for OU on vault and another 10 for Nichols. 49.250 for Arkansas. Looks like scores are also showing the exhibition numbers?
Baumann – BB – UGA – side aerial to loso, small lean to the side – switch side, good lift htere – 1.5 dismount, does well to hold the stick with a little lean. 9.925
Maldonado – FX – ISU – front randi – BUT WHY WASN’T IT THE TRIPLE – very smoothly done, better than most rudis – good security on second pass, just some knees – double pike, very solid. Good one. 9.950. Well damn. Pretty sure the judging sheet just said RANDDDIIIIIII
Vega – BB – UGA – switch to split ring with a little lean – aerial to split, lovely high split position – bhs loso, secure – side aerial to full, stuck, great dismount. 9.900
Palacios – FX – ISU – double pike, large bounce backward, looked OOB to me but we don’t have a flag judge in that corner – front lay front full, a crossover step to control – split leap full to split jump full to wolf full, a bit short on the split but I do like that the wolf full was the strongest psoition of the three, we’ve seen a lot of afterthought wolf fulls this season – rudi, chest down a little with step back. 9.650
After 3: Georgia 147.875, Iowa State 147.550
The scores are higgghhhh, but both teams putting together complete and comfortable performances, Georgia answering questions about whether it can hit and ISU answering questions about whether its high ranking is legit.
Meanwhile Oklahoma on track for a 658. 49.525 on vault. 49.675 on bars, just a half tenth shy of the Oklahoma program record on bars.
Steinmeyer – BB – ISU – kickover front to beat, probably keeps it moving quickly enough – bhs loso series, lean correction, medium size – switch to straddle 1/4 – 1.5 dismount, lean at the hips to hold the stick. 9.775
Perez-Lugones – FX – UGA – double pike, a bit out of control with a lunge back – back 1/2 to front lay – switch side to popa to wolf full, popa got a litle short but overall fine – double tuck, small slide. Good. 9.850
Turner – BB – ISU – bhs bhs loso, very secure – some soft knees but solid – switch to straddle 1/4, bit of a lean – side somi, squats a little to hold it – gainer pike it pretty low with a bounce forward. 9.800
Magee – FX – UGA – pike full in, good control on landing, that bit of leg separation we always see in piked full ins but not extreme – pretty positions in her leaps – back 1.5 to layout to stag, also low on her stag – double pike, under control, some chest position. Another solid routine. 9.875
Burns – BB – ISU – cat leap to side aerial, pretty smooth – switch with a check before beat to straddle 1/4, a broken connection there, important for SV – bhs loso series is secure – 1.5 dismount, hop to the side. 9.600.
Baumann – FX – UGA – double wolf is well controlled this week – didn’t try the triple – back 1.5 to front full, small bounciness, touch of knees – L single to full turn to switch, pretty switch – double pike is short with a lunge forward – switch ring switch side to finish. 9.800. I would have had that in the 9.7s compared to the others.
Semple – BB – ISU – bhs loso series, secure, just a bit of chest down – full turn, small correction – switch to switch 1/2 to beat, deduction on the switch 1/2 position – side aerial to full, hop. 9.825
Hawthorne – FX – UGA – huge double pike, controls the landing better than that time she got a 10 from one judge – split lepa full to split jump full, amazing height on split jump full, love the way she can wait to initiate the twist – lay to rudi, to a bit too much travel in the split – double tuck, short with a lunge forward. 9.875
Palacios – BB – ISU – side aerial to bhs series, pretty large break, bend to the side – switch to split jump 1/2, controlled – cat leap to side aerial to full, holds the landing with a stagger
Lukacs – FX – UGA – huge DLO, small bounce back – 1.5 to half to shush, didn’t get a ton of height in the shushunova today – switch side to wolf jump full, low to the floor but hit – double pike, good, small adjustment but nice pop there. 9.900
Converse – BB – ISU – smooth loso series, good – split to straddle jump 1/2, best position of the bunch on those – kickover front to beat, good speed in combination, she was a little deep in kickover landing but I love how she returns to that deep position after the series to be like “this is a movement theme y’all” – 1.5 dismount with a bounce back, largest deduction in the routine. 9.875
Vega – FX – UGA – double pike, good control on landing – back 1.5 to lay to sissone, not the highest sissone we’ve seen from her – split leap full is great – I’d say the split 1.5 got around – good control on double tuck, just a bit of chest position. 9.950.
It’s 196.625 for Iowa State, a road score they will take to the bank any day. This is definitely a top-15 level team that should look toward making the regional final this year as a legitimate goal.
Georgia finishes 197.325, loose evaluation throughout but also an important statement performance, a complete and competitive meet.
Meanwhile Oklahoma went 49.400 on beam (I mean was that even a try?) but remains over 198 pace heading to floor. Arkansas has been over 49 on each event so far.
Austin doing exhibition on floor for Georgia again but comes up short on double tuck, hands down.
84 thoughts on “Monday Live Blog – January 20, 2020”
Thank you Spencer, you’re the best! Thank you for covering my Cyclones! 🙂
Idly wondering: Does Courtney really use “Kupets Carter” as her last name? I always assumed Kupets was a middle name due to the absence of a hyphen.
I don’t think it’s legally her last name, but rather people use both to establish continuity in her career.
In the south, a lot of people legally change their name after they get married. They replace their middle name with their maiden name and then take on their husband’s last name.
Maybe I don’t understand what the original person wanted to know. I think we’re all saying the same thing.
Thanks – I asked because I always assumed that she did that, but constantly hearing her referred to as Kupets Carter made me wonder if that is what she uses day-to-day or just the broadcast making sure everyone knows who she is. Not important, just curious!
My guess, based on nothing, is that she uses Carter in her personal life and Kupets Carter in her professional life. I know many women who do that and they’re much less of a “big name” in their professional life than Courtney is.
What about UW?
UW/Boise State isn’t until 9 pm Eastern.
I believe they tape the weekly Gymnastic podcast on Monday nights, so it would conflict.
Gym-castic. (Autocorrect issues)
Pondering a possible future UCLA dilemma…
Both Grace Glenn and Kyla Ross are slated to graduate and no longer be available for the UCLA beam lineup in 2021.
For all intents and purposes these are the most consistent and best beamers on the team – I can see them bookending UCLA with 10s sometime this season (assuming Kyla will return to anchor in some meets).
But UCLA can avoid losing both from the lineup if they offer Grace a scholarship for a fifth year (she redshirted her freshman year due to injury). Her health is tentative but she seems pretty steady int he beam lineup.
Would Grace want her twin Anna to return with her? Personally I have no issues with Anna coming back for a fifth year, but I don’t offer her a scholarship due to her lack of contribution. Grace is definitely worth it though.
Does anyone know if Grace is considering returning for another year? Would she return if her twin decides not to?
This is a Georgia/ISU meet. Who cares about UCLA
no need to be rude
I swear I read somewhere (here?) that only one Glenn twin was on scholarship?
Is there a rule that every blog must have at least one UCLA comment or reference? I guess there aren’t many gymnastics sites, so this probably is the only place to ask questions. It’s just weird because it doesn’t happen with other sports. I mean people don’t talk about USC in a Michigan-Ohio State football or Alabama-Auburn football reddit thread.
It’s almost certainly a result of there being so few outlets for discussion for the sport, though I wouldn’t be surprised if someone out there maintained a UCLA-centric gymnastics blog since they draw so much attention, comparatively.
Omg take yo UCLA nonsense elsewhere, aint none of them wild gremlins bouncing around this competition. Relax!
anyone have a link for OU/Arkansas?
Away teams come to Georgia to help Away scores for RQS, reason why Georgia stays ranked so high in RQS their Home scores. 🤣
Georgia is far from the only place handing out crack scores this season or past seasons
Yep. I’m glad Spencer read my mind about the UGA bars routines. Those first three routines score in the 9.6s and peak at 9.70 at many away meets (or if they are wearing Pitt or Arizona leos). I will say the separation of a point between the first three and the last three was correct – just that the high should’ve been 9.875 (maybe 9.90).
Also UF is a good place for road teams to improve their RQS. The last couple of seasons Florida road scores haven’t lived up to its home scoring, though I think this is more due to errors being made at away meets and not drunk scoring. In other words, Florida would receive drunk scoring on the road if they weren’t making errors.
UGA has more form/built-in deductions then Florida in many routines.
I’ve wondered how the non-conference scheduling gets negotiated in NCAA. I always assume BYU/Georgia’s phones are ringing off the hook.
(Not that other teams don’t get overscored at home, but those venues seem to get the earliest start on it every year)
And UCLA, Utah, Oklahoma, LSU, UF, etc.
Let’s be real. Scores are HIGH everywhere this year. Even Big Ten meets seem to be going high. Maybe it’s just time for fans to adjust expectations.
I know that in college basketball (at least this used to be the case last time I looked at it) a lot of nonconference games are “buy games” where a powerful program like say, Kentucky will pay Northeast Whatever State to come to Lexington to get spanked.
The thing is, the “economics” in gymnastics are the opposite of those in basketball. In basketball, wins and losses matter, so the strong teams have to provide a financial incentive for a weak team to come to town for a near-guaranteed loss. In gymnastics, however, in a matchup between Northeast Whatever State and Georgia, for example, it’s NWS that benefits because losses don’t matter and they’ll probably score higher for an equivalent performance in Stegeman than they would at home. And yet NWS is much less likely to have the budget to pay for buy meets, assuming such things exist in NCAA gymnastics.
And then you have schools like Alaska that are a HUUUUUUGE PITA to travel to and I always wonder how they get any non-conference team to agree to compete there.
So I’m very curious how this all gets decided.
The worst over scoring so far this year is the usual Oklahoma, UCLA , Georgia and Florida. If this continues we will have a glut of 200 scores by the end of the season. It’s not the gymnasts fault but it is out of control. The Cal And Denver scores were insane also. NCAA needs to get a handle on it or the sport will be ruined. LSU and Utah were included in the above comment but if you look at their overall score sheets there are a couple of doozies at each meet but not egregious like the above 4. When comments such as “it doesn’t matter as long as both teams at the meet are equally elevated “ are made. It does matter because unlike other sports it’s not the win loss ratio that counts but the average. This season’s post season rankings are all but set based on 2 or 3 meets. Powers that be. Please fix it Before it’s too late
All of this is why I’ve been curious whether changing rankings from RQS to wins/losses would help offset some of the scoring discrepancies. There would be obvious ways to exploit it, so maybe it would be a wash. Clearly, though, the NCAA doesn’t care enough about the sport to do any oversight (so long as the big schools are happy, at least).
I’m glad that more people have been speaking up about the destructiveness of the bad scoring rather than just complaining about it. I agree that it’s ultimately damaging to the sport and does little more than satisfy the schools with money and their fans who want them to win at any cost.
I don’t think we should just roll over and accept that some schools will always score better, not when there are explicit scoring guidelines that everyone is supposed to follow in the same way. If they want to codify the handwaving and let everyone (even the little schools) benefit from it, then fine. Terrible choice, but it makes more sense than applying the rules differently to a handful of schools because they’ve got the money to manipulate judging.
Like, yeah, institutional unfairness will always be present in sports in terms of resources and recruiting power and all that. But at least in other sports, with the exception of rogue ref intervention, the actual rules of the game are agreed upon and applied consistently. I don’t see why it’s unreasonable to expect the same for gymnastics.
I think the two reforms that would help the most would be (1) dump NQS and replace it with average score and (2) go to five-up-five count (I’d be ok with six scores counting if the scholarship cap was also raised).
Basically, weaker programs need to see more gains from having really strong performances and stronger programs need to feel the consequences of a bad day. The rules are very much designed to preserve the existing pecking order.
This is why people love March Madness, BTW. Upsets aren’t allowed to happen in gymnastics the way they are in other sports.
Third suggestion: (3) provide some sort of guaranteed postseason opportunity for a team that wins its conference championship (this is also something that happens in basketball). A couple years ago, George Washington could hang with the best of them but were massively held back by the fact that they were in EAGL and most of their meets were in unfriendly scoring environments. The best teams in the “weaker” conferences are generally much better than they appear on paper. I’d rather see the best EAGL or Ivy team at regionals than a PAC-12 or SEC bottom-feeder that probably owes its RQS to more frequent Carol exposure.
I think you’re right on re: the conferences and guaranteed spots. The post-season would definitely be way more interesting in a more extensive and inclusive seeded tournament structure. Everyone seemed to enjoy Oregon State’s run last year; why not set up the structure to produce more Cinderellas? I wonder, too, if having a smaller tournament like the NIT in addition to the main one would help. I’m sure the athletes at the smaller schools would appreciate the opportunity to compete in a post-season environment.
Changing to straight average would make the top programs feel the effect of a bad day more, but I don’t see how it would help the lower-ranked programs capitalize on big days. NQS is more set up to capitalize on the biggest performances.
It’s the combination of no NQS and no dropped scores that gets you there. Neither works on its own.
But I don’t see why keeping the low scores would significantly benefit the lower-ranked teams. If anything, I would think that would harm them more than the top programs.
Shouldn’t having a back half to front layout as a pass incur an up to the level deduction?
did maggie just get a 9.975 on beam when she had a clear balance check?
Yes, and she was overscored on bars too. Kelly was saying she had a bad day and would probably score a 9.875…then up came the 9.95.
Lol even Kelly garrison was like “9.875 or 9.9 for this bar routine” so like yeah it was super high. It’s ok to take deductions from maggie if she makes a mistake. She won’t be mad, she’s a 22 year old adult. She knows she made a mistake.
I don’t think UCLA will have the scholarships available next year, they have a huge class coming in that includes Padurariu (world beam medalist), Malabuyo and Brooklyn Moors. Plus Chiles and Chae Campbell.
UW is later tonite.
UGH! Maggie Nichols is ridiculously over scored. It is not her fault of course. Just makes me sad because I love her as a person and a gymnast, but it’s pissing off fans.
Why are you talking about UCLA? weirdo. This is a UGA Iowa meet.
Spencer just wait until you see the routine they gave a 9.975 to for Maggie. She had a wobble on her series! And someone gave it a 10!
Wait until you see Emma LaPintas floor. 9.900 for a veryyy short last pass.
Giving Maggie a 9.975 on beam was laughable- she wobbled after her series!
Is the OU meet available on Sling somewhere?
Hulu or fubo if you put in an OK area zip code
Can someone tell me what Lukacs missed one her beam routine? I was right there, but admittedly I don’t keep up with skills. Did she miss a connection? I saw one judge gave her a 9.9 SV.
I’m really impressed with De Jong for Georgia. Her beam routine would have been in the 9.9s almost anywhere else. I was surprised at the score. Judge 1 went 9.8 and Judge 2 went 9.95. I would be interested to see what Judge 1 took off for — I mean she gave clearly inferior routines from both UGA and ISU higher scores than De Jong.
similar to the Bama meet, scoring at OU/AR was generous but not outrageous in the first two rotations and then the crack kicked in for beam & floor.
OU’s beam lineup wasn’t super strong – lots of silly wobbles. Whoever gave Maggie a 10 for that routine needs their vision checked – there was an obvious wobble on the series. Webb should’ve scored lower – she had a big check on her aerial and hopped on her dismount. Ragan wobbled on choreo, but the rest was great.
Floor was more solid, but still overscored. 9.9 is too high for Draper & LaPinta – Emma does not have good control on the landing of her 3/1, and she crosses her legs throughout that pass. Ragan had a strong routine after missing her second pass on Friday, and Webb was also solid. Degouveia was off on her first pass – big step to the side and maybe underrotated. 9.975 was too high for Maggie on this event too. She only did two passes, but lacked some control on the landing of the double pike – front foot came up. So not a 10. Again.
Bars & vault were strong rotations for the Sooners, though. Generous scoring, but not total crack.
Arkansas looked good today and benefitted from loose scoring as well. They’ll be happy to leave with this away score. Shaffer was in the beam & floor lineups this week and looked solid. Lovett’s DLO on floor is huuuuge. Jordyn’s HC fashion is obviously on point and today’s halter top showed off her still-ripped arms.
This is a great recap of that meet! I agree with all of that
Wanted to mention the exhibitions as well. LaPinta showed a solid Yfull. Gillings did bars but fell. Draper also showed bars with a fall. Deniz showed a beam routine with potential, but it’s not lineup ready yet, particularly the leaps. Hickey did floor and had some trouble with her landings – looked like she was thinking hard the whole time.
There was a good crowd there, which is nice to see, since OU’s had trouble getting their attendance up in the past.
Probably hard to build a following when a country of rabid gymfans can’t even find you.
Folks in Norman & OKC just gotta show up, though. The program seems to have stepped up advertising and outreach the last few years. Winning a shitton and having well known athletes like Nichols doesn’t hurt either.
Alas, the TV problem is thanks to all the conference alignment/realignment/whatev that’s focused on football/basketball. There’s no Big 12 network, so it’s just local TV unless a meet’s picked up by ESPN.
Why isn’t Shealyn Luksik of UK competing on UB??
Oklahoma’s home-cooking judges seem determined to give Maggie Nichols a 40 in this her final season.
Silly if not earned, but no more silly than Lichey’s 1996 historic 40 at Georgia if you rewatch it on youtube. Most of Kyla Ross’ 10s are from road meets including when she came close to a 40 last year…at Oklahoma.
Gotta love that OU home scoring!
You should do your research because OU gets higher scores on the road then they do at home.
Yes they get insane home scores like UCLA, UGA, UF and others, but on average in the past few years their road meets produce higher scores. I believe for NQS they even use five road scores and one home score in the final rankings (not confirmed).
Yup. OU benefits from home scoring, but job more than any other top team, IMHO.
Maggie, like Kyla, gets more 10s away than at home. 13 of her 19 (20, now) were away.
Yeah OU’s problem isn’t home scoring, it’s just… all scoring. Judges see Oklahoma leotards, expect them to be great all the time, and then score them based on expectations instead of performance.
The narrow range is a problem too: the gap between, say, Draper/LaPinta and DeGoueveia on FX should not be 9.90 – 10. It should be like, 9.50 – 10.
Lichey’s scores at that 40.00 meet were not out of line with judging at that time. She had high difficulty for that era (probably more than 1/2 the current Gymdogs on each event) and they were more forgiving back then. Bars in particular were judged more leniently.
It was also an away meet and not Stegman.
NCAA.com and the youtube video show that Lichey’s 40 was not an away meet. The 40 was scored at Georgia’s home facility of Stegman:
“Feb. 23, 1996: Georgia freshman Karin Lichey scored the elusive perfect 40.0 at Stegman Coliseum in a meet against Kentucky.”
Agree with comment regarding bars judging having changed over the years…The bars routine in the historic 40 would not have approached a 10 with today’s scoring which emphasizes vertical handstands etc.
Still, congrats to Lichey on her fine freshman performance! According to her interview: “I was not feeling well that day…then I got 10 after 10, and so I kept going.”
I agree with Ally’s point. I am also curious how over scoring effects perception as well. Meaning, you have UCLA travel to another Pac12 school – are they judged on reputation or what is actually happening in the meet? How do these over scores then affect regionals where the teams who have stretched for 197’s aren’t taken as seriously as the top teams.
Also, the week to week scoring… Cal had a 194.95 last week on the road and a 197.325 at home this week.
In all of this, I guess it’s January and Spencer’s like “calm down y’all.”
To be fair, Cal’s low score was 100% deserved and their high score this weekend wasn’t a huge stretch. There were a few overscores, but they were great. Just because a team improves doesn’t mean there was insane scoring. One or two falls can make a huge difference.
UGA is another example. Their bars is the weakest for them, based on the other three events, if bars hits, it’s really no surprise to see UGA hit 197. If they have to count a fall or a bunch of mistakes, then seeing a 195 or low-196 is reasonable. It just reflects inconsistency in performance and not scoring.
Did you watch the Cal meet? It was at best a mid 196 meet. Agree that bars was a stand out but the rest was was Christmas in January.
Probably the best example of school bump is Taylor Houchin’s vault. She has performed 2 truly perfect 10,s and is not rewarded. Compare to Maggie and Kyla, both of whom are amazing gymnasts and nice people, but in comparison to Taylor’s vault they are just not there. If you haven’t seen Taylor vault head to you tube. It’s worth it. At any of the big 4 it’s a 10. Unfortunately not rewarded at her school. If basketball or football referees took the slack license that some of the gymnastics judges do, they would be out of a job. The same oversight is needed for gym teams. They work too hard to be the “under-belly “ of the judging world. Coaches need to demand it along with fans and athletic directors
WORDDDDD to every. single. thing. here
Can someone please explain why Megan Roberts 9.925 bar routine was high? It looked like all handstands were hit, the DLO was stuck, but there was a slight piking. I could see where piking the dismount would be a 0.05 deduction; thus, a 9.9 or 9.95 seems pretty reasonable for NCAA. Why are people saying that was a high score?
This is the first week I can see UGA having any confidence in bars moving forward. If they can clean up Hattaway and Cashman, getting Schild back into a lineup would actually provide a viable rotation.
I think de Jong is going to be a very lovely gymnast for them.
Waaaah. Scores are too high. I must whine about this ad nauseum which will change nothing. Waaah.
ikr, so dumb to expect rules to be applied fairly lol
Exactly – this comment section is only for important things that can be CHaNGeD by our AcTIViSM!
I’m writing to my Senators right now!!!!
Robot/Video scoring can’t come soon enough.
I’m getting very close to quitting this sport due to the scoring. It’s been unfair to athletes early in the lineups for far too long and its progressively gotten worse overall.
Judges need to get fined and blacklisted after so many screw ups. There is no transparency, no repercussions, only the sport and athletes suffer for this nightmare. Seriously, its getting close to petition time with threats of boycotts.
I had to be recently reminded that the judges themselves are unfairly pressured by the schools who hire them and determine their pay—because that’s not a massive conflict of interest—so I don’t want to come down on them as individuals too hard. But collectively, yeah, it’s garbage and it makes it hard to enjoy.
What makes this particularly frustrating is that there’s no other outlet for the American athletes to compete regularly without returning to elite, where it’s ultra-cutthroat given the depth in this country. I don’t want to completely destroy the parts of college gymnastics that are widely loved, specifically the more relaxed, fun atmosphere and team elements. I want them to have the opportunity to get a good education in exchange for all their hard work. Maybe I’m wrong, but I get the sense that the NCAA would rather shrug and wave goodbye to gymnastics than perform actual oversight.
When people say they are this close to quitting something, they remind me of old women in stores who are complaining about something and let everyone know THEY WILL NEVER shop her again! And then everyone looks around like, Are you waiting for a OH NO, please dont. Dont give up on us. Dont quit. Please give us a another try. Like no one cares. Go. lol bye bitch
Yeahhh… I don’t know that boycotts would help much, as I don’t think NCAA gym fans provide all that much actual support for NCAA gym. Probably what is needed is some negative media, pressure from coaches for more oversight and transparency of judges, and action from the top to provide said oversight.
In the long run, the sport is more sustainable if judging is more accurate, fair, and transparent. Coaches should care about that. But I bet they are probably more concerned with the short term, and if you’re Kindler, Waller, Rowland, Kupets, etc. why shake things up? Easier to coast on your school’s reputation and your ability to influence home judges, and enjoy those extra tenths.
I hate to say it, but I think what it’ll take is for a program to get cut that no one saw coming. For an AD to say “we’re not going to fund this shit anymore.”
Exactly, the coaches have no incentive to behave differently when their jobs are on the line
Maybe we need instant replays and/or for the competing team to petition for a review. Any one at the meet? Did the apposing fans boo over that score? Usually fans only boo when a score is too low that they don’t understand. And sadly when then do boo for an over score, they tend to get crucified on social media as bad sports ( remember Utah fans not liking some UCLA scores and voicing their opinion) Can you imagine football fans not booing what they thought were bad calls? Maybe if judges got immediate fan feedback for scores that are too high as well as scores they think are too low, we might see some change.
“And sadly when then do boo for an over score, they tend to get crucified on social media as bad sports ( remember Utah fans not liking some UCLA scores and voicing their opinion)”
I reallllllllly don’t think that taking fan feedback into account is the way to straighten out judging. Especially at Huntsman. I don’t begrudge Utah fans their sassy booing, but their reactions have little to nothing to do with the actual gymnastics (most are casual fans, which is great!) and everything to do with supporting their home team.
The team-specific support is very college sports, which makes sense and all, but I still think it’s weird that fans of the opposing team won’t even, like, clap for a gymnast finishing her routine. I guess because of the arena setup and the rabidness of the fanbase this was really evident to me watching the Alabama-Oklahoma meet. Like, Oklahoma vaulters are landing 5 inches away from the home crowd and they just sit there staring, not reacting. It’s very consistent with the culture but it’s bizarre to me.
>I still think it’s weird that fans of the opposing team
>won’t even, like, clap for a gymnast finishing her routine
LOL. Or when Utah home fans just hold up newspapers in front of their faces instead of watching UCLA’s routines.
That was an obnoxious group of students. The other 14,500 fans cheer and clap for good gymnastics on both teams. Also I was at the UCLA Utah meet where the big “boo” was given to the “judge” who gave Kyla a 10 for a routine with a huge waist bend and a small balance check. It was egregious and a blatant over score. Utah fans are passionate and fairly knowledgeable. The MUSS can be obnoxious but it’s a small group in comparison to the rest of the arena.
Are we actually resurrecting the newspaper drama?
Inject this straight into my veins!
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