Live from Worlds – Event Finals Day 2

It’s the last day! Five more finals to deal with. No remaining Olympic qualification spots on the line today, as it has all been decided, but we do have what should be tight races for all most. I mean, Simone’s winning floor. But otherwise!

For the men, we have the race against death that is vault, when Yang Hak Seon’s handspring 3/1 probably gives him the edge, but you never know who will have limbs on any given day. On PBars, we’ll be treated to the weirdness that is a final without Zou, Verniaiev, and Mikulak, which opens the medals to a whole mess of people. And on high bar, Tin, Tang, and Sam will go at it in the race for the “Epke’s not taking this one!” title.

The news on the women’s brigade is that both of the inquiry victims have been allowed back into their finals, Kara Eaker after the withdrawal of Ellie Black (high ankle sprain) on beam, and Brooklyn Moors after the withdrawal of Nina Derwael (already won a gold, beyotches) on floor. Basically, my preview of floor is Simone, but the remaining medals are open to be won by quite literally anyone in the final. And my preview of beam is as follows: beam is beam. We’ll see who is still standing at the end of it.

Tingting is here in the arena for the open warmup on beam. There was some question about whether she would be pulled for Chen after they pulled her from the AA, but she’s here warming up.

Simone is here working the Biles into stag to try to make sure she’s getting the connection, with varying levels of success.

Man Body Chuck

Yang – VT 1 – handspring 3/1 – oooooof, hand down, nearly got there, but it’s a fall. Well, we’re open for business now. 13.733

Yang – VT 2 – Kas 2/1 – gorgeous twisting form, nice height and direction, a small hop back – that’s a comfortable vault for him. 14.900. 14.316 average

Radivilov – VT 1 – Dragulescu – very nice, small hop to the side – major cowboy and some feet of course, but just that small adjustment on landing. 14.833

Radivilov – VT 2 – Tsuk double pike – lands short on this one with a hop forward, so opened the door with that landing. 14.666. 14.749 average into 1st.

Dalaloyan – VT 1 – I mean he barely trots for this TTY – a little forward, hop to the side, looks like he just did stay inside the area. 14.933

Dalaloyan – VT 2 – handspring double front pike, a mostly nice one but a large lunge forward there – has the position in the air and didn’t botch it this time, but that lunge will take some tenths away. Should still be ahead of Radivilov. 14.933. 14.933 average and into 1st.

Dragulescu – VT 1 – Dragulescu – stuck it. Well now. That’s the best Dragulescu he has done in YEARS. Just a bit of cowboy, perfect direction. 14.966.

Dragulescu – VT 2 – Goes for the ro 1/2 on 2/1, crossover lunge to the side – a little under rotated, to the point that it will be a question for credit – form to take as well. 14.283, did not get the intended D score. 14.624 average

Nagornyy – VT 1 – stuck dragulescu! It was a very take-that-marian vault – has the cowboy, not quite as extreme as Radivilov’s. Very solid landing, just some chest position. 14.933.

Nagornyy – VT 2 – Tsuk double pike, just a little hop in place, a little forward, feet flexion, but great. That’s first place for me. 15.000. 14.966 average and into first. Close but correct.

Shek – VT 1 – he has the difficulty planned to get big numbers – well, that’s the end of that – tsuk double back full right to his face. 13.933 is the score you get when you fall.

Nikita’s cringe face was everyone.

Shek – VT 2 – handspring double front pike 1/2 out, well he’s going for it and landed that one, large lunge back. 15.000. 14.466 average

Cunningham – VT 1 – Shewfelt and it’s nice in the air – hop forward – good direction. 14.566

Cunningham – VT 2 – round off 1/2 on, 2/1 – once again nice position in the air, small hop forward, feel like he’s not getting rewarded enough for E. 14.566. 14.566 average and 5th place.

Le – VT 1 – handspring 2.5 and it’s mostly pretty – nice quick twisting, just a bit of legs, especially toward the end – lunge back. 14.666

Le – VT 2 – Kas 1.5, hop forward, not going to be the difficulty necessary to get a score in this final. 14.400. 14.533 average

GOLD: Nagornyy (RUS)
SILVER: Dalaloyan (RUS)
BRONZE: Radivilov (UKR)

It’s our second Russia-Russia-Ukraine podium

On to the beam final

BEAM

Li SJ – BB – switch, with a check and two arm waves – split ring, another check before bhs, fighting it – side aerial is nice – front hs to front tuck, perfect – switch ring to bhs, a little pause but might get it – aerial to split ring jump to korbut, nicely done – she has found her way now – split jump 1/2 from side – double pike, beautiful toe point in it, medium hop back, over time as well.

Good routine, lovely second half, wonder how much that really tentative beginning will hurt her. 14.300

Padurariu – BB – candle mount – wolf triple and can’t hang on. Well, she hangs on to the beam to do an excellent salto, but that’s not really part of it, fall – side aerial to loso loso and a second fall of the routine – switch, solid – aerial to split to bhs, smoothly done – wolf to sissone – 2/1, bounce back.

Voss – BB – bhs loso loso series, very solid, just some knees – split leap full, leg-up break but keeps it on – side aerial, bend at the hips – switch to switch 1/2, lovely switch and nice as far as switch 1/2s go – aerial to split to bhs, too slow for CV for me – check on full turn – side somi, solid – 2.5, hop forward. She was fighting it throughout but stayed on. 13.266

DJDS – BB – front pike mount, hit with hop forward – punch front pike, nailed – bhs to layout, stuck, great form on bhs – split jump 1/2 from side, nice – switch 1/2, fairly short of 180 – aerial, small arm wave correction – switch to sissone, nicely done – overturns full turn a bit – double tuck, bounce back. She’s back. That was nice.

13.666 and into 2nd place. Just 5.2 D score given.

Liu TT – BB – candle mount – front hs front tuck, pulls it out with a leg-up break – thought she would have a fall there but she saved it – split to split ring to bhs, solid – switch ring, small leg-up correction – aerial to split ring to bhs, great – split leap to side aerial, check – 2/1, hop back. I preferred that one to Li’s, but we’ll see how much that wobble on the front tuck takes away. It was pretty big.

MDJDS submitted inquiry on that low D score. Got a 3 tenth bump in D score to 13.966. Makes a bit more sense, that new score.

14.433 for Liu TT and into first. I’m good with that.

Eaker – BB – switch mount, no connection split ring leap, would assume no credit, as was the problem in Q – y spin, just a little correction – aerial to split ring jump to bhs, beautiful – side aerial to loso loso with just the smallest arm adjustment – split leap to side somi, leg-up break, keeps it on the beam – switch to switch side, lean forward – this is the most artistic beam routine of the final – bhs bhs 2.5 dismount, deep with a little hop.

Now, let’s watch the D score.

14.00 and into 3rd place. 5.9 D score given. They’ve been consistent that they’re not happy with her ring positions.

Biles – BB – wolf triple, right on – aerial to split to straddle, very quick in combination – bhs loso loso, very solid – switch to switch 1/2 to back pike, she’s right on today – side aerial – split jump 1/2 from side, a bit tight but secure – bhs bhs full in, no need to do the Biles if they’re only giving it one tenth more I suppose, hop back. Some things to take of course, but that should surely be the leader. She’s been nailing beam this week.

15.066. The most reacty we’ve seen Simone about a score coming up in a long time.

Saraiva – BB – bhs mount, lovely – round off layout, and falls. Oh Flavia – split leap to sissone – bhs loso loso – switch ring perfect of course – as is the split ring – hit a side somi sandwiched in between them – double pike, excellent, small hop. Of course the rest was pristine. 13.400

GOLD: Biles (USA)
SILVER: Liu (CHN)
BRONZE: Li (CHN)

Eaker ends up in 4th place. Wonder if this will inspire them to get rid of that split ring leap and go back to the drawing board and recompose this thing a little bit so that she can get close to the D score she’s attempting. Another instance where the softness of previous judging led to a worlds surprise. It’s like they had not encountered the idea of the downgrade avalanche that would happen if she lost the initial split ring attempt until now. Can’t imagine the level of hostage video they’re going to produce with Kara Eaker now.

PBars Final

For Lukas Dauser’s intro picture, he’s literally just reaching his hand under his shirt? That has to be among the weirdest ones.

Sun – PB – peach 1/2, several hand placements – peach, a little horizontal initially – double back to arms, good – front straddle, solid – bhavsar, hit well, good distance and swing – tippelt, smallest hesitation up to handstand, but good – struggles in his healy with a larger hesitation – double front 1/2 out, a little short with a hop

His pads have some sort of pig wearing a baseball cap on them and CHINA.

14.466

Onder – PB – peach to one, quickly to healy – peach 1/2, pretty solid vertical position – front straddle to catch in L, solid – stutz, nice – double tuck 1/2, stuck. Excellent routine! 14.983. Big score.

Kaya – PB – healy – peach 1/2, quickly done – peach – front straddle to arms, solid – bhavsar, smoothly done – tippelt, nice elevation over the PBars – stutz to one, kips back up, a little sluggish up to handstand and brushes his feet on the rail – double front 1/2 out, smallest movement.

14.966. Very close, but I think correct. I had Onder a little stronger.

Fraser – PB – peach 1/2 a little short of hs – swing to one, lovely control in handstand – his tuck to arms elements are well done and a crowd pleaser – stutz – front in, 1/2 out, just a little forward with a step. Nice routine. A couple things he didn’t have in some of his other routines this week, but good work.

15.000. he does repeat the Q score and is into first.

Xiao – PB – diam pretty late – and then stutz initially a little short – double back and healy nice, 1/2 with some hand placement – the salto elements are well done but a few of these handstands have been imprecise this time – tippelt – double pike, bounce back.

14.966 and into 4th. Just surprised it was that close. That one wasn’t as strong for me. It’s a third of a tenth separating the top 4.

Arican – PB – does a good job holding his peach to one, into healy – peach 1/2, small arch with an extra walk- Makuts, worked through – stutz, just a bit of feet this time, – diam is nice – double front 1/2 out, stuck. Great finish, but a couple handstand things like Fraser this time. We’ll see if it shows up in the score.

14.900 and 5th place. One tenth out of the lead.

Dauser – PB – peach to one, a little quick but good – diam, solid – tutz, a little angle – can’t hold onto a Makuts attempt and comes off the rail. The German media director for the event who was sitting net to me for the last few routines is OUT OF HERE. He finishes super cleanly, great diam – double front 1/2 out, hop back. Seitz and Dauser both fell in their finals. 13.833

Pakhniuk – PB – diam 1/2 and smashes his leg on the rail swinging through – continues the routine, but congrats Joe – frotn straddle to arms, nice – healy, clean – stutz to one and back, solid -front in, 1/2 out, stuck. The leaders both had major errors in there. 14.200

GOLD: Fraser (GBR)
SILVER: Onder (TUR)
BRONZE: Kaya (JPN)

We’ll need to work on the picking him up technique. One tenth separated the top 5.

FLOOR

Melanie – FX – DLO 1/1, just a bit of piking, bounce back, keeps it in bounds – full in, good control, small step back – switch ring, pretty – switch full, around – wolf 2.25 – front loso to double tuck, steps back OOB – double pike, pretty solid, shuffle back. That OOB though.

13.833

Akhaimova – FX – DLO 1/1 with a large bounce back and OOB – DLO, U-shaped but fine, small step back – double L, close but maybe a little short – double arabian, some cowboy, step back – wolf triple with FEELINGS ARMS to mask any wobbling – wolf double – full in was good, chest up, small shuffle back – split leap full, fine. 13.500 and 2nd place.

Popa – FX – pretty DLO, a little out of control, lunge back and then another step – whips through to full in, a couple small hops – switch ring to split leap full, nice position on both – gets her triple Y spin around – just a front full third pass – double pike, solid, small slide. Best so far.

13.800. Disagree.

Lee – FX – double double tucked, her usual, chest a bit down and a hop to the side – DLO, some arch but fine amount, slide – wolf triple to wolf double, solid – 1.5 to front full, short with a hop back – switch ring to split leap full, lovely positions – double tuck, just a tad deep, small movement. Good.

14.133 and into 1st.

Melnikova – FX – DLO 1/1, a little short with a hop – L turn 2.5 basically into double turn – DLO, pretty solid, medium bounce back – switch and switch ring 1/2, not horrible – front tuck through to 2/1, bounce back – leans her way through a wolf 3.267, she got that around through sheer will of elbows – double Y pretty close – double pike, nearly stuck, small slide. Wonder about the size of those landing errors.

14.066 and just behind Lee.

Saraiva – FX – whip through to DLO, holds that landing someho w despite being low – switch full is glorious – full-in, nice chest up landing, step back – split leap 1.5, definite credit – back 1.5 to front full, holds the stick just long enough – double Y to single turn, double y was close – switch ring, hit well – double pike, step back. One of her more composed routines landings-wise.

13.966 and into 3rd place. Just missed Melnikova.

Moors – FX – podkopayeva to stag, probably the best she has ever done it – front 2/1 to front full, some knees, a step – double attitude turn, pretty – she’s emoting everyone’s face off even more than usual – switch ring – split ring 1/2 is crazy but she does it as prescribed – oooooh Brooklyn! Crazy legs on her 2.5 to front full, and two little steps forward and the flag goes up.

Flavia is putting in an inquiry again. Just to keep things interesting.

Simone’s just like, seriously this wait?

Flavia’s inquiry has been rejected this time. She remains behind Melnikova.

13.600 for Brooklyn and into 6th place.

Biles – FX – triple double with a bounce back – Biles, tries to connect to stag which she was working on, and kind of does it but stags OOB – wolf double – front full to full in – solid, hop back – switch to split leap 1.5, borderline credit there – double double, stuck. Not her strongest until the final pass, which truly was her strongest, but it hardly matters.

15.133.

GOLD: Biles (USA)
SILVER: Lee (USA)
BRONZE: Melnikova (RUS)

Two individual medals for both Lee and Melnikova here. Biles with 5 golds, She goes to 30 on the worlds + Olympics combined standings. Latynina is at 31.

HIGH BAR

Srbic – HB – nice opening full pirouette – stalder tkatchev to tkatchev to layout tkatchev to tkatchev 1/2 good – tak 1/2, a bit late – layout tkatchev 1/2 – tak 1/1, not bad all considering – DLO 1/1, small hop back. Good routine. How significant will the no-stick become?

14.666

Tang – HB – Zou Li Min, fine – wonderful height on tam 1/2 and Yam, so much better than other people – layout tkatchev 1/2 – layout tkatchev – then misses an arm on his next release and has to come off! The Q leader is out. Double double layout, step forward

12.766

Lin – HB – layout tkatchev to a tkatchev, fine but looked close from our angle – Kovacs, good – layout tkatchev 1/2, hit – tak 1/1, extremely late- yam, a bit close on catch – some late pirouettes that will hurt – double double layout, bound forward

14.033

Dalaloyan – HB – Cassina, well done – layout kovacs, sotrong – layout tkatchev 1/2 – tak 1/2, good finish position – layout tkatchev – yam – double double layout, deeeeep with a lunge forward. It was basically perfect until the dismount.

14.533 into 2nd. Would have been 1st with a normal dismount.

Nory – HB – opening full pirouette a little late – tak 1/2 pretty smooth – layout tkjatchev to tkatchev to tkatchev 1/2 hit – this is going excellently in the release department, jaeger layout 1/1 – I worry about some of these vertical positions – double double layout , small step. He has a characteristically subdued and respectful reaction.

14.900 and 1st place. Well now.

Hashimoto has his Kovacs release down – layout tkatchev and tkatchev hit – late full pirouette – and a very late 1/2 tak – double double layout, lunge back

14.233

Bull – HB – 1/2, a little arch but good vertical – misses his Kovacs, well drat – Resumes with the Kovacs again to immediate Kolman, hit – Cassina, hit – yam, solid enough height – DLO 1/1, holds the stick. The rest was strong.

13.200

Mikulak – HB – Cassina, good – Kolman, hit – Liukin, hit, just a bit of tform – tkatchev to tkatchev 1/2, has to muscle out of it with a lot of elbows – tak 1/2 pretty late – double double layout short with a large bound forward. Not his strongest. Added the difficulty. Let’s see where he ends up.

14.066

Nory gets fetal position. Mikulak into 5th.

GOLD: Nory (BRA)
SILVER: Srbic (CRO)
BRONZE: Dalaloyan (RUS)

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110 thoughts on “Live from Worlds – Event Finals Day 2”

      1. I really hope so! Though I am happy that Gleya got another medal… And I am also happy for Lee (and for both of the chinese girls, after team finals I am so happy that they did good in the individual events!). And also really happy for Simone, because even though it takes out some of the excitment of gymnastics, she has a lot of pressure, from herself but also from the whole world!

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    1. Agree. They’d be in denial not to restructure her routine at this point, especially heading into an Olympic year. If I were on the selection committee I’d have serious doubts about sending her to the Olympics with either the team or as a specialist if the most she’ll get on beam is a 5.9 D and a low 14.

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  1. I haven’t seen Eaker’s beam repertoire over the years but keeping those non-rings in after getting a reprieve for the beam final seems plain daft to me. I know it’s unusual for WAGS to make changes mid champs but it’s not unheard of if they’ve got a niggly injury or, in previous years, the bars had a different flexion to what they’re used to.

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    1. If she didn’t have so many, it might have been more reasonable to try.

      I think this was a combination of going for broke for biggest possible score if they were kind today and playing it safe by not going to an EF with a routine she wasn’t as comfortable with. Playing defense. It would’ve worked if the final was as splatty as usual.

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      1. I don’t think Kara is confident enough to rework her routine in a few days. She seems very dependent on her coaches.

        I hope she starts taking more charge of her routine composition and learns to calculate her own D score etc. She’s now had two full seasons as a senior – time to read the COP.

        Liked by 1 person

    2. They pulled out the switch ring so that she wouldn’t risk losing her CR so they obviously did make one change. As for the other ones, with the limited amount of time, it would be hard do add other skills to make up for the rings, so she might as well go for them and see what happens. With the time off, they can rework the routine to try to get back the value in other ways.

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    1. They didn’t show her on the Olympic channel broadcast. If I’m not mistaken the only person in all event finals that wasn’t shown 😦

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    1. I’ve rewatched Flavia’s and Melnikova’s routines, and I cannot figure out how Flavia didn’t get bronze. Melnikova had very uncharacteristic lack of control on her double L and triple wolf and more than one landing were arguably 0.3 deductions.

      The execution scoring on floor continues to be an issue with the lack of separation.

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  2. I’m very grateful for the inquiry because my stream cut out just then and it gave me time to get it running before Simone’s routine!

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      1. Yep, sucks to be under 25 and on the internet. Every juvenile thing you do will be brought up over and over well after you’ve matured and died.

        Don’t be so petty and judgmental.

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      2. When most people are under 25 they aren’t blatantly racist, on or off the internet. I’m never sure why „being young“ is an excuse. Do you really think young adults aren’t capable of knowing that behavior is wrong?

        Liked by 1 person

  3. Really feel that Dalolyan was underscored in floor, vault and high bar. He should have won vault and second on high bar – thoughts?

    Simone was amazing

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      1. And in those 30 years of AG, how many World medals have you won? It’s so inappropriate to call anyone “garbage,” but especially for a keyboard warrior sitting on their couch, talking about a world-class athlete.

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  4. Hi I just wanted to share that an ad network is serving political display adverts on your blog in the UK. You might want to contact WordPress about it. I can’t attach a screenshot here but it is a shady advert with a Brexit poll, weirdly delivered by a grocery store. If you need more info don’t hesitate to contact me and I will forward you the screenshots I took. I own my own blog so I know this kind of stuff can be hard to catch and you seem to me as someone who does not want to be involved in shady political advertising.

    I love the blog though and as a Brazilian I am not 100% in love with Nory after the racism issue although it was a long time ago. But I am happy for him.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Re your last comment, I found myself saying that kind of thing to friends so many times this week. I used to like Nory before the racism stuff, Dragulescu before the sexism stuff, Larduet before the homophobic stuff. Maybe the gymnasts who just blandly day they want to go out and hit four for four aren’t so bad in comparison.

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      1. Nagornny and Vernaiev too – they’re young and I’m sure lots of people are sexist assholes when they’re young, not to mention trying to be provocative. But I don’t really care. If that’s not actually how they feel about women or how they think it’s appropriate to treat strangers, then they shouldn’t behave like that in public. I’ll take it at face value and assume they are assholes until they prove otherwise.

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      2. Vernaiev made a bunch of jokes about how women are only good for cooking – on some show with Nikita and Daria both there. If I remember correctly Nikita looked uncomfortable but didn’t say anything.

        Nikita took photos of this chubby lady at Mexican open one year and put them on Instagram with disparaging comments. He’s also made some comments about Daria’s weight but to me that’s sort of their business – I don’t like it but I’m not Daria and it’s up to her if that’s the kind of nonsense she’ll accept from her husband.

        I don’t remember if either has apologized, and I’m not saying no one else is allowed to like them because of this. It’s sexist and spiteful behavior – although it’s true that young men are often assholes because they think it’s ~edgy~, I’m not interested in excusing them for it until they show that they really deserve it. Lots of people manage NOT to be assholes in public.

        I also want to add – especially with Nory’s behavior – once you put that kind of hate out there, I think you need to do more than just apologize to make up for it. Racism and sexism – even casual, even “joking,” make the world a more dangerous place for women and people of color. Probably that wasn’t their intention, but it’s still the outcome.

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    2. Someone showed you their cards long time ago, its still the deck they are playing with. Those kinds of beliefs he had about his afro brazilian teammate, are still with him. ONly apologizing because HE had 2. But he made great over the top reactions that you liked and got your feelings moving. Great. let us all clap for Nory! Praise him!

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  5. What is with the beam judging… How can it be that they have had to adjust so many routines by .3. I’m sorry but that’s the difference in getting medals! How many scores do you think havent been inquiries and could have been adjusted?

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    1. It’s so weird how there are so many beam scores being changed by 0.3 this year. I believe a lot of it has to with ring skills being devalued which results in repeated elements. These repeated elements then force the judges to count easier skills like back handsprings to find 8 counting skills.

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    1. It was cute the first three times and now it’s enough.
      Also I like seeing people’s faces and a bit of the athletes on the sidelines but it looks straight up invasive at this point.

      I love how the Chinese gymnasts can and do say „good job!“ and „thank you“ in English even though I think most of them aren’t studying it as a foreign language. So polite!

      Liked by 1 person

    1. I literally cover my eyes after he’s done a routine, it’s like the worst actors at an amateur theatre production — it’s way too extra. I mean, is he mentally challenged, like legit disability? I honestly don’t know.

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  6. Wow, I always expect craziness from men’s event finals, but this exceeded my expectations.

    From now on, when someone asks, “Who is Joe Fraser?” I can say, “you know, the World Champion on Parallel Bars.” He has as many world championship gold medals on PB as Oleg Verniaiev. Congratulations to Joe.

    And Nory must never retire. MAG isn’t the same without him. So, he has an Olympic medal on FX, and is reigning World Champion on high bar. It’s not MAG if you don’t walk around in a fog afterwards going WTF just happened???? Right now, MAG is far more exciting than WAG, where Simone’s dominance renders every event less of a competition than a coronation. I’m not complaining, but rather just stating the obvious.

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  7. Well it all ends with expected Simone dominance, a nice Suni debut, US WAG Gold, US MAG no medals – Sam inevitably screwing himself out of anything.

    I liked that so many countries made it on the podium in unusual abundance, though. WAG Japan and France not getting even one medal was sad.

    WAG: Belgium, Italy, Great Britain. (US > China > Russia)
    MAG: Great Britain, Turkey, Ukraine, Philippines, Brazil, Italy, Israel, Taiwan, Croatia, Ireland, France. (Russia > China > Japan)

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    1. The Longines prize that went to Sam and Melanie should be renamed “The What Could Have Been Prize,” or “Heartbreak Award.” Sam and Melanie are beautiful gymnasts who fell short in Stuttgart. Sam is like a young Oleg. Tons of potential and beautiful lines, but always messing up when it counts. Oleg finally managed to hit when it mattered the most. We are still waiting for Sam to do the same. For Melanie, I have never seen her fall as many times as this competition. She tends to be pretty reliable. I hope that this was an aberration and not the new normal.

      MAG has so much more parity around the world than WAG. I think that some of this is due to SImone’s sheer dominance of WAG. She should be a country unto herself. Also, some WAG countries underperformed in this Championship. Brazil, France, Germany and Netherlands have been mainstays on the WAG medal list.

      And Germany didn’t show up for their home World Championships. No one is talking about how disappointing the home teams have been on both MAG and WAG sides.

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      1. Yep, look back at Simone’s first year international debut as a senior – it’s comparable. Falling on beam was a thing, 2nd place to Katelyn Ohashi – all types of interesting things happened when she came on the international stage. But everyone recognized she was going to be amazing too. I see the same thing with Suni.

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      2. Ok I looove Suni and I don’t care if she falls, but that’s not a good comparison. Simone struggled at the beginning of 2013 and then she went on to hit every routine at nationals and Worlds and kept the streak going until she touched the beam in the AA at 2015 worlds (which she still won.)

        Sunisa fell off and on all season (Jesolo, Am Cup, Camp, and both QF and TF at Worlds), only hitting everything at nationals. I think Suni is amazing even without consistency, but she’s always been a bit unpredictable and I don’t see the improvement in consistency that we saw from Simone.

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  8. Can’t really compare Latynina’s medal count with Simone; Latynina competed when worlds were every 4 years and so had a quarter of the opportunities that Simone’s had, to get her 31 medals.

    Latynina was fantastic. Simone is amazing as well. They can’t be compared.

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    1. Very good point. Reminiscent of the ‘career’ winter olympics records set when winter olympics were held only 2 years apart in 1992 Albertville France and 1994 Lillehammer Norway.

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    2. Um okay, then you can also say GYMNASTS back then could stick around for years and years, much longer than now because the level of gymnastics was much easier on the bodies etc. So ???

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      1. Not necessarily. Plenty didn’t. Latynina and a small handful of others, much the same as today.

        I don’t think you can even mention them in the same sentence. The sport has changed so much in the interim. Latynina is certainly one of the greats, who grew and changed the sport herself. Her medal count cannot be compared with gymnasts of today, who have a great deal more opportunity than she ever did, a great deal more training, better quality equipment…..

        Simone is amazing. Her medal count should stand on its own, outside of Latynina’s achievements. Latynina’s Olympic/World counts will not be beaten, and neither will Simone’s. I think we can absolutely consider Simone one of the best ever, but we should absolutely not be comparing Simone’s achievements to those of Latynina, Tourischeva, Comaneci, Silivas, Shushunova or anyone else who competed before Worlds were competed every year. It is not apples and apples (as far as opportunity goes).

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      2. As great as Larisa was back in her day, the Soviet Union had absolutely no competition in Latynina’s time (she predates Romania’s rise and Czekoslovakia overlapped only the end of her career). The Soviet Union also fixed many of the results to be favorable towards their athletes (culminating in Caslavska’s 1968 protest), even when corruption would not have been necessary.

        Liked by 1 person

  9. Everyone has been attacking Kara, her coach, anyone involved in her routine, and all the US judges who have supposedly overscored her… – but last year at World’s she was given a 6.2 or 6.4D, not to mention 6.4 or 6.6 at Pan Ams, SO why would she think she needed to change things?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Okay! Tell it! Thinking because their feelings were so well expressed on youtube or BB or Gymternet comment section that magically the coaches should have known and HOW DARE THEY NOT!!. Bypass the last world’s judging, and pan ams who gave her higher start values. If the judges would have kept the same energy last year, at Worlds I’m sure it would have been fixed, and also at Pan Ams… But nope.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. She’s not even close to the description in the CoP. USAG should be thankful someone finally tagged her for it. That routine has been criticised for two years and not only for that, it’s a dangerous routine that isn’t catered to her strengths. How many times has she fallen on the mount? It’s just very poorly put together for judges and for the athlete.

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    3. Thank you for this! While I’ve felt that Kara’s beam composition isn’t great due to the downgrade potential, it’s hard to blame her coaches for maintaining this routine when she’s had FIG international success with it.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I have seen so many people make this argument and I could not disagree more.

        If I go over the speed limit every day on my way to work and then one day, a cop actually gives me a ticket, it’s annoying, but it doesn’t invalidate the ticket or make it the cops’ fault because they didn’t enforce it every other time. Al, Armine, and Tom are experienced elite-level COACHES. If they don’t know what a good ring position is like despite it being clearly laid out in the COP, then they suck at coaching. If they do know what a good ring position is, and they keep Kara’s bad ones in her routine banking on the idea that they will always be credited, then they made a bad judgment call and it is STILL THEIR FAULT. It is not “hard to blame the coaches.”

        Why do you all want to defend them so badly?

        Like

  10. Anonymous
    OCTOBER 13, 2019 AT 4:39 PM
    If Worlds would have been every year for those chicks, they still wouldnt have won as many nice try tho sis!

    – Perhaps. But we don’t know that. That’s the reason for my comment; we shouldn’t compare the two, because we don’t know. It’s not a fair comparison.

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    1. Agreed. If at some point in the future the World Championships are changed from an annual event (one time per year) to a quarterly event (four times per year), would it be fair if Simone’s medals record is then broken?

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      1. Absolutely agree. Most people would say no, it would not be fair; but that’s exactly what we are talking about here. Would that person then be considered better than Simone because of a higher medal count, due in part at least to having 3 more opportunities a year to compete for medals?

        Really, the only fair comparison of opportunity in this case is the Olympics – where Latynina amassed an unbelievable total of 18 medals. Simone would have to go to three more Olympic games and medal at all of them to surpass that total.

        Latynina is one of the best ever. Simone is also one of the best ever. Leave it at that, without the comparisons is what I say.

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  11. Kara Eaker new routine

    Switch split mount (D)
    Wolf triple (E)
    Wolf Double (D)
    Side Aerial (D)+Loso (C) + Loso (C) +.4
    Front Aerial (D) + split jump (B) + straddle jump (B) +.2
    Split leap (B) + Side somi (D) +.1
    Switch leap (C) + switch half (D) + BHS (B) +.3
    BHS (B) + BHS (B) + Triple full (F) +.3

    FEDDDDDD 3.5
    Composition 2.0
    Connection 1.3
    Total 6.8

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      1. She’s literally the only other American that can legitimately compete with Simone for a gold medal if they both “hit”. Think again.

        Neither Simone or Suni would get gold on UB if everyone hits, but Suni would get higher in the ranks. UB being so weak, Suni is as locked as can be right now.

        Kara might get that extra non-team spot to Tokyo, but she’s a stronger lock than everyone but Suni by a mile (Simone and Jade, excluded of course).

        Like

      2. Or how about Kara work on the switch ring every day in the off season? She just needs specialized stretching and strengthening to get that particular position. I don’t see Kara as an inflexible gymnast. I think she just hasn’t prioritized the switch ring because judges let her get by with an unallowable position.

        I’m glad she got called out in Stuttgart and not during the Olympic season.

        She has time to fix the problem. I think Kara’s 2020 beam routine is the most anticipated U.S. routine right now.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. I would say she’s one of the four very likely Americans to make the team along with Simone, Sunisa and Jade. No one else has an event final worthy routine, so no one else makes sense to bring in the specialist spot.

        The specialists will be Jade and Kara.

        The team will be Simone, Sunisa, and two others among Riley, McKayla, Grace, Leann, Morgan and maybe someone else who comes out of the blue next year.

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      4. I was so looking forward to a break from all the insane Kara-stanning after the Ring Thing, but I guess I am not so lucky!

        “She’s literally the only other American that can legitimately compete with Simone for a gold medal if they both “hit”. Think again.”

        Ok first… she WAS the only American who could compete with Simone when she was getting her rings undeservedly credited. Now she can’t. I personally believe they can work up a new beam routine because Kara is great on beam, but until she goes in competition and hits said new 6.4/6.5 D-score routine, then no. She is not.

        “Neither Simone or Suni would get gold on UB if everyone hits, but Suni would get higher in the ranks. UB being so weak, Suni is as locked as can be right now.”

        Sunisa is as likely to challenge for gold on UB as Kara is on BB at the moment. Sunisa actually does have a 6.4+ D-score routine that she has trained upgrades for, while Kara does not have the equivalent on BB anymore.

        “Kara might get that extra non-team spot to Tokyo, but she’s a stronger lock than everyone but Suni by a mile (Simone and Jade, excluded of course).”

        Nonsense – see above. Also add to this that Kara does a mediocre 1.5Y on vault, is mediocre on bars, and requires a strong hit + generous judging to get a competitive FX score.

        I think she’s still in the mix, but she is behind Leanne, Morgan, and Grace until she can roll out a stronger beam again.

        Like

      5. I think it’s highly likely Kara will fix her routine quickly, putting her back in gold medal contention on beam. Say what you will, but a gold medal on anything, especially with a top 5 AA score, is going to secure her a spot for Tokyo – on or off the team doesn’t change that fact.

        Unless something extraordinaire happens, Simone, Sunisa, Riley, MyKayla (4team) and Kara (1), Jade (1) will be the US WAG in Tokyo. It’s possible Grace can get an amanar and take MyKayla’s spot, but I think it is pretty far fetched lacking injury any one else taking one of those 6 spots.

        By no means are these the top 6 people I LIKE, the numbers just speak for themselves.

        Like

    1. Thank you for mentioning the needed dismount upgrade!!! By upgrading from a 2.5 to triple, she adds an incredible 0.4 to her difficulty: 0.2 more the F skill and 0.2 more for the B + F acro connection.

      I’ve never understood all of those attempts at rings and series attempts while a guaranteed 0.4 goldmine is just staring Eaker and her coaches in the face. She does the 2.5 so effortlessly that it shouldn’t take much time at all to get the triple. That would push her right back into specialist contention if other aspects of her routine are reworked.

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      1. Kara’s 2.5 dismount does not look effortless. She landed quite deep in her event final dismount.

        I think she has a better chance of achieving an improved switch ring position by next season than of adding another 0.5 twists to the dismount.

        But if she achieves both then she should go to Tokyo as the best US beam worker bar none.

        Like

      2. I know we think of gymnasts as superheros, but you make it sound so easy for Eaker to just POOF upgrade to a triple, when watching her regular dismount, no one thinks WOW she could totally do a triple twist. But I could be wrong, I never watched her vault with her bent knees at the end, and thought she could do a DTY, but she has one did it last Feb at camp, did it well, so I could be wrong. I think her coaches need to change her beam routine structure, bring out her DTY, continue getting better on floor which she is pretty solid in, improve more on bars, instead of making ONLY beam her lifeline.

        Like

    2. I don’t really see Eaker doing wolf turns.

      That said I think the first person I saw do a wolf turn was Terin Humphrey, who IIRC was also GAGE, so I guess it’s not impossible.

      Like

  12. After browsing the TF & AA blog, many people were harping about how awful the US WAG team is. I guess them winning by a mere 5 and change point margin surely shows they completely suck now. Not to mention a medal was won on every event by an American. The only event Simone was the sole American to win on was beam (other then AA). I personally feel that the US came out stronger and better than last years worlds, and IMO have a great choice of gymnasts to choose from heading into Tokyo.

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  13. I, like everyone else in the world, think that Simone is amazing and definitely GOAT!!!! But, that being said, I would love her to add some elegance to the power. No one is going to touch her on difficulty but now it would be nice if she concentrated on dance and grace. Other gymnasts get pulverized over their lack of dance skills – imagine Simone with the best of both. Still love watching her and am amazed every time but a little attention to the non power stuff would be nice. Please don’t attack, this is not a hate comment but s suggestion.

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    1. Yes. Simone is the GOAT, but I enjoyed watching Brooklyn Moors’ FX in terms of artistic gymnastics. Considering the way that the scoring is earned, however, Simone is certainly deserving of her titles.

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      1. Moors is a great performer, but lezz be real, her choreagraphy isnt that great on floor. her performing is, but she needs a better routine. The reaching up and pulling down over and over again is a bit much. She has the ability to do more. Dramatically pulls up then down… over over

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      2. The fawning over Brooklyn Moors is just… it’s so much. Like Pullupand-down says, her choreography is almost entirely based on wavy arms and tragic face. I’d be very interested in a more upbeat routine from her, to be honest—get some variety into her yearly ballet recital!

        Like

    2. Regarding elegance…

      These gymnasts were honored as being the most elegant and charismatic gymnasts at the following World Championships held during the Simone era:

      2013 Kyla Ross
      2014 Yao Jinnan
      2015 Giulia Steingruber
      2017 Brooklyn Moors
      2018 Angelina Melnikova
      2019 Mélanie de Jesus dos Santos

      (Longines Prize for Elegance is based on grace, harmonious movement, and emotion during the performances)

      Like

    3. Simone may be a power tumbler first, but she has plenty of elegance baked into the way she executes things. I love watching her vaults in slow mo because she can do these super powerful elements with her legs together from start to finish—no starfishing required. Her Cheng blows everyone else’s away in part because she makes this thing that requires great physical exertion look so clean. That, to me, is elegance.

      Like

  14. When do you think they will start permitting inquiries on other people’s routines? Like say Brazil calculates Melnikova’s floor D and thinks she got some turns credited that shouldn’t have been – I want them to be able to inquire her score.

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    1. That would turn into a hot mess. You’d have competitions grinding to a halt not to mention the viciousness, animosity, backroom deals, and backstabbing that could occur.

      Like

    2. Never again. The Soviet Union used to do that to gymnasts from other countries to prevent them from outperforming their own gymnasts in some instances. Most famously, they got Caslavska’s beam score lowered two tenths in event finals so that she tied the Soviet gymnast for gold (instead of outright beating her), leading to the famous 1968 protest.

      Like

    3. i didn’t even know that it was possible for you to ever inquire some other team scores in the past?

      Vrod would have bankrupted the RU by now if she couldve done that right now as someone already mentioned….lol

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      1. I do wish there were some kind of check on egregious judging fuck-ups though, like a judge missing a blatant OOB on floor or the like. That’s more of an NCAA phenomenon though.

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    4. Lol I still remember I think at 95 worlds or 94 worlds team event, when Shannon Millers toes missed the toe on for the compulsory dismount, and still received like a 9.6, I remember the Russian coach Arkiev I believe, yelling and screaming at the judges and mimicking Shannons toes coming off the bars, like How could she get a 9.6? lol. He wasn’t wrong tho. But… haha aww memories.

      Like

  15. I didn’t somehow put all of this together until this floor final, but IIRC the women are now restricted to 4 tumble passes on floor, and of the counting skills for the D score 3-5 can be tumbling and the rest must be dance. Does this effectively mean that only those who can manage 2-salto passes (e.g. back 1.5 through to a 2/1) can count 5 tumbling elements?

    I went back and looked at Spencer’s posts “CSI Your Floor Score” (2017) and “The Most Difficult Floor Routines in the World” (2019) and it looks like exactly nobody is counting 5 tumbling elements of D or higher, even though plenty have the ability. So to count only D+ you need 4 (or 5) D+ dance elements. Biles, Murakami, and Andrade all have 5th counting acro elements of C, and they are all front fulls done in combination with another, higher-value acro element.

    Put another way, right now you can have a floor routine with only D or higher elements if you can do 5 D or higher dance elements, but not if you can do 5 D or higher acro elements.

    This seems weird to me.

    Like

    1. That’s correct. The only way to count 5 acro skills is to have one of those skills be in a combination pass. Technically it’s possible to count 5 acro skills of D or higher, but that would require an Ellie Black pass of D + D indirect which I don’t know if anyone aside from Trinity Thomas has done before.

      This is one of the reasons it’s so hard to get a high floor score. A C+D direct connection is one of the hardest passes in women’s floor, yet you only get to count a 0.3 skill and 0.4 skill and 0.2 for bonus. That’s the equivalent of doing a stand-alone D and stand-alone E skill. That’s why gymnasts who can’t do power tumbling passes are stuck – even the most complex twisting passes can’t rise the level of a double-double. This is why I don’t mind China going for their triple twists into punch fronts – it’s the only way for many of them to stay semi-competitive on floor.

      Like

      1. that’s why the US continues to lead in FX difficulty because of the fact that everyone on the team except for eaker has a double double tucked somewhere in the routine.

        also just the biles II itself is basically worth the whole first pass combination that aly raisman was famous for. which is why you see both carey and skinner are also attempting to train them to try including them in their routine.

        Like

  16. Two more thoughts on Worlds (not sure where else to put them until there’s a Worlds wrap-up post).

    1. I don’t know if it was better equipment or lighting or being further into the code cycle or what, but I only saw/heard about 2 event-ending injuries across the entire meet (Barbosa and Black), and neither seemed particularly devastating – no one was carried out on a stretcher. Such a difference from 2017.

    2. I really liked getting to see the reactions to Olympic qualification that happened in the rings final. It really sucked for Petrounias, but it was great from a fan perspective. So different from basically all other Olympic qualification finalizations which happened at the end of the last qualification session and are people watching their phones in their hotel rooms.

    Like

    1. Very much agree on 2. I basically only watched rings because of the stakes, and I was not disappointed! The downside, of course, is seeing these gymnasts’ dreams slip through their fingers, especially in the case of Petrounias, where his only remaining option is to push himself through the apparatus World Cups and hope that he comes out on top, despite being injured and not having competed at any yet.

      Like

  17. I think these worlds just prove we’re in a place where difficulty reigns king. Despite all the safeguards in place, it’s sad that nearly every single gymnast that’s top 10 on anything has had a significant injury in the last two years. Difficulty has too quickly outpaced execution — it’s hurting the artistic value of the sport and it’s hurting the gymnasts.

    So many gymnasts live with pain for the rest of their lives for their short-lived moments on the world stage and it gets harder and harder to watch every year with this in mind. This isn’t at all a reaction to Simone’s paltry dismount value. It’s just a general observation.

    Watching people constantly wobble and fall because they have to risk near impossible skills to be competitive doesn’t look amazing — and narrowly avoiding leaving the gym in a stretcher isn’t an enjoyable watch either.

    I think the sport is near broken. I’m not sure what’s more outrageous, the fact that people fall and up with nearly the same execution score as those that don’t or that it’ll probably take a catastrophe from a *star* for things to change.

    Like

    1. Or just enjoy watching the more sane gymnastics of the NCAA meets (although you may have to endure after-effects of some broken down elites).

      Like

      1. If the US actually took the CoP, FIXED it and NCAA implemented it. I absolutely would obsess over it. I hate the 10 scale system, it’s pretty atrocious for fans of the sport and the primary reason I can’t watch NCAA.

        Like

    2. I don’t know of any of the U.S. worlds team except Sunisa having a major injury in the last 2 years – what am I missing?

      More relevantly, my sense is that the injury rate is a lot lower than it was, and the severe injury rate (e.g. life threatening) is a *lot* lower than it was, at least in the U.S. Have you ever spoken to an international-level gymnast from the 80s or 90s? They were seen as completely expendable. They didn’t do NCAA, they didn’t make it that long. They were used until they weren’t useful and then they were basically abandoned. Multiple international-level women gymnasts were paralyzed (3 that I know of, one each for U.S., China, and Russia/USSR).

      Now the world knows Simone, sure, but many people also know and care about Ragan Smith, who has no world/Olympic medals, and Aleah Finnegan, and Shilese Jones. And all three of those athletes have struggled with injuries, sure, but they have been dealt with at least semi-appropriately, and if/when they never get international elite success they will very likely be healthy enough to go on to NCAA.

      What makes you think the injury rate is up versus what it was in the “artistic” years?

      Like

  18. Interesting past few comments. I agree that I’m not sure that there are any more or less injuries than in the 80’s 90’s or whether it’s just that we hear more about them now because of social media and gymnasts being more open. Great strides have happened in training situations, equipment and methology of good training is becoming wider spread, all of which is good. Maybe it could be that the difficulty level has outpaced the benefits the new equipment can bring to injury reduction. There are also quite a number of gymnasts that have tragically become paralysed recently too, so I don’t think that is a valid debate. Paradoxically, it’s been proven that as a society we make cars, roads etc safer, sometimes this can lead to people feeling they can push the boundaries and as such counteract the safety benefits the safer products bring. As such the only way to utilise the new equipment and training situations that are essentially safer is to change the emphasis of the code to sounder technique and quality of slightly less difficulty. Thus utilising the equipment benefits without the limits being pushed to the max.

    I do very much agree that the essence of artistic gymnastics is and has been loosing its artistic and quality attributes for quite some time now. In my view this is sad to see as there is a definite imbalance between difficulty and quality/artistry where sloppy more difficult work is outscoring work (I’m not talking about simple work) work of slightly less difficulty done well.
    Execution against difficulty judging is way too narrow. This for me was utterly emphasised by Jade beating Ellie in vault:
    Cheng: Ellie’s way by far superior in execution to Jades but the execution score didn’t reflect that
    Yurchenko: whilst jade added an extra half twist, there is no way that both on pre flight and off balance landing and large step to the side should of out scored overall the quality of Ellie’s double – this is where execution is not given enough validity

    Dare I say it (and I’m a major fan of Simone and have great admiration for her work), that her mistakes in floor final despite the difficulty should not out score less difficulty (moderately less difficulty – not simple)

    One suggestion has been to double the execution deductions, this has happened in acrobatic gymnastics and I don’t think it has helped as in many ways then gymnasts/coaches become overly cautious of not putting anything within a routine that has any chance of a slight error (can be performed very well with 8/10 consistency over a simpler element that has mostly 10/10 consistency) so they avoid a very well performed element being placed in a routine because of fear of the double deduction.

    So I don’t know what the answer is with regards to the balance of both aspects but I do know that in artistic the balance is too weighted on difficulty

    Like

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